Get Real wrote:
I guess the funny thing is that I never cried out about my 17 year old getting sent into the adult population wherein he was beaten by a 30 year old man so badly that he was rushed to the ER having convulsions, that the Jail not the Hospital never contacted me of this situation, and they Billed me for the ambulance and hospital bills, when I sent the bills back to the Jail demanding that the law states that the county is responsible for the bills and how they added this too his jail fees he owes and they somehow became from 3k to 25k in hospital bills, and how they pinned an escape attempt on him when someone else stole his sheet off his bed and he sent in a request for another before the attempt, how they never sent him to trial on this yet every time they picked him up for an offense, they put him in solitary and said they would do this until a years worth of "jail punishment time" was logged, how he was sentenced to 10 years for stealing junk from a garage, how this skinny white blonde boy with asthma was sent up the river, and how many times he had to fight a black man predator who was his cell mate

John UK wrote:
...you never even read your Bible.
Ephesians 1:18 KJV
(18) The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints...
Psalms 18:28 KJV
(28) For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.
Hebrews 6:4-8 KJV

You omitted v17 John ....
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints"

John UK wrote:
arminist version of prevenient grace, .... Spirit is normal for those whom the Lord calls, and that this is not an "indwelling" but an enlightenment, a communication, an enlivening

So "enlightenment" eh John?
Do you mean the Age of Enlightenment so loved by the secular world?
"The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment or Age of Reason) is the time period in which cultural and social changes occurred emphasizing reason, analysis and individualism rather than traditional ways of thinking."

Lets see John's NEW method of how God works is (1) Enlightenment - Is NOT indwelling - So it is the Spirit's work from a distance sort of remote control - Haven't we been here before? The future Christian (Elect at this stage - Who knows???) anyway this Christian possible still at enmity with God and cannot discern - Is zapped with an enlightening bolt flash or whatever and hey presto they are ???? What saved? Partially saved? Or just initially zapped?

Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
See also V9 ....

John for JESUS wrote:
PROBLEMO...We weren't arguing who ordained them to eternal life. I'm just saying all who were ordained believed already. They were believers in God who needed to hear the gospel truth. Funny how the bible doesn't mention that they were ordained until after they believed.

Question

I know that you take a Biblical view of salvation by faith alone.

John Macarthur: Yes, by grace through faith--NOT BY FAITH ALONE. By grace through faith.

Question (continued)

Ok, but I’m a little confused as far as the implications of that Lordship to the non-Christian at the point of salvation. How much of it can they really comprehend in terms of the Lordship issue? And then along with that, are you saying through your series on the Lordship that the call to salvation is synonymous with the call to discipleship?

Jim Lincoln wrote:
Wine or water is no more holy

JD wrote:
DB, You are a disrupter and one who is attempting to confuse the Scriptures and I do not know what is your motivation. However the end to your devices cannot be good and I fear for you.
There is NO covenant of grace in the Holy Scriptures.
No one hads said Abraham was a Jew. Where did you get that out of the blue?
Satan is a master of misinformation and I believe your words are his!
Very Confused:
You are rejecting my argument feom the passages I am dealing with. At least deal with those passages and tell me how I am misrepresnting them. Then we will deal with your argument.
Are you too confused to know how to debate?
I am out for the day!

JD wrote:
My statement is not stupid and it was not my statement.

JD wrote:
...If you say the Scriptures are stupid then you are telling us more about yourself than I care to know.

JD wrote:
...That was a promise to Abraham and not to the gentiles..

JD wrote:
What is my take on them? They speak for themselves. What is it about them you do not believe or you will not accept? I would really like to know.
And how do you connect the verses you quoted to what I said? What point are you trying to make with them? It makes no sense! You are right, you are confused and you are obviously not a spiritual man.

And I suppose we should all concur with the modest estimation that you have of yourself?!

The point of the verses that I cited should be plain to all but the blind viz. that the promise made to Abraham was to him and his seed (Gal 3.16). But the seed is not ethnic Israel, it is all true believers. That would include the Gentiles who are specifically included by Paul in the Galatians passage as the children of Abraham. Gal 3.29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.