John UK wrote:
a] If you're referring to baptism by immersion, I challenge you to find one post

b] unless a man will repent and believe, he will never be saved. P.S. Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that to be true.

a] Does this mean you DON'T believe in immersion baptism John?

b] Now don't forget John, Repentance is a GIFT of God. - Same as believing (Faith) is.

Now that is something the Arminians will argue with.

John UK wrote:
Amen bro! Talking about BELIEVER'S BAPTISM, even toddlers can understand this scripture:

Isn't it interesting that the Bible says absolutely zero about quantity of water in baptism. YET you guys teach that there must be sufficient water to cover the entire body, - or it doesn't work?

Then there is the Arminian type of human confession which you require or baptism does not work?

John UK wrote:
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:39 KJV
#1 Note whom Peter gave this promise to: those who were pricked in their hearts.
#2 Note that the promise is to those whom God calls, worldwide.
#3 Note that repentance came before baptism. That is why it is called 'believer's baptism'.
#4 Note that you take verses out of context, and end up with error.
#5 Note that apart from this grave error of the Presbys, you're in reasonably good company.

Candle Lit wrote:
From personal experience, the Baptists have a better understanding of the Holy Spirit than the Presbyterians. The Presbyterians rarely even mention the Holy Spirit, except somewhat mystically.

Oh the sweet meanderings of the works based religious!!!

It must be the confusion arising from the reliance upon the human submersion act being oh so very vital to the subsequent possibility of divine input. Thus are the free willers attracted to this type of human autonomous contribution unto their final destiny!!

Ooohh Look!
An Arminian with tendencies towards universalism????

Another poor heretic who cannot trust in GOD to make the choice of who is saved.

And pleeease you Baptists out there don't try and tell me this guy is "partially" calvinist. The Elect know the truth you know.

Limited Atonement is fact and Biblical.

God limits the amount of sinners he has elected unto salvation. Thats the truth fellas.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

BTW you folks who still can't see the whole truth - the word *ALL* here doesn't actually mean everybody.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And remember folks NOT everybody is born again.

See how easy it is to see "Limitation" applied by GOD, in the Bible.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but ***FEW*** are chosen.

DJC49 wrote:
P. Resby,
I'm making an "educated guess" here, and this is what I've found to be true:
Whenever GREEK letter characters are used within a post, their usage somehow lessens the overall amount of characters [1300] allowable per post. And seeing that within your post of 1/31/09 12:08 PM there are GREEK letter characters in BOTH portions of what you quoted of *KK* [ βαπτίζω (twice), and βάπτω ] and what you posted in response [ εισ ], you were thereby cut short considerably of the alotted 1300 characters per post.
Does this make sense?
Using actual GREEK letters ANYWHERE in a post somehow "eats up" the available posting character allotment.

KK wrote:
In the verses above -- Baptized - βαπτίζω (baptizō - bap-tid'-zo) - to make WHELMED (that is, FULLY WET); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
*Please note -- βαπτίζω is from a derivative of the Greek word βάπτω (baptō - bap'-to) - A primary verb; to WHELM, that is, COVER WHOLLY WITH A FLUID; in the New Testament only in a qualified or specific sense, that is, (literally) to moisten (a part of one’s person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): - DIP.
Verse 38 they went "down" both "into" the water !!!

But not everybody reads "your" Lexicon - "Your" way!!!

As for verses 38
The Greek - εισ - holds the meaning = "to" or "into" - Thus what Philip and the Eunuch did is not proved to be immersion.

KK wrote:
Merely pointing out what THE WORD SAYS !!!

What I was merely pointing out is that, nowhere in Scripture does it state that the depth of water in baptism, is of such a quantity as is required to cover the whole body as in immersion/submerging.

KK wrote:
The word "washing" in verse #5 is referring to Baptism with water by immersion, that is, the washing of the

John UK wrote:
It does not surprise me that presby's get this subject wrong, as they have no understanding of the whole purpose of baptism. Whoever heard of baptising unbelievers?

Is this Arminian John - or naive John???

Your namesake taught;
"We must at the same time beware of another evil, such as prevails among the Papists; for as they distinguish not as they ought between the thing and the sign, they stop at the outward element, and on that fix their hope of salvation. Therefore the sight of the water takes away their thoughts from the blood of Christ and the power of the Spirit."
John Calvin.

John UK wrote:
One of the earliest confessions of faith was by an Ethiopian, and because he was able to confess it, the New Testament evangelist felt it right to baptise him by immersion and give him the right hand of fellowship.
Oh that it were so simple now.
Acts 8:37 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Or

Mike wrote:
I have no proof, but I do wonder if the version cults use most is the KJV?

St Jeremiah wrote:
There was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be immersed. Jhn 3:23
I find it amazing that those who argue for sprinkling....live where there is plenty of water.

The Biblical mode for baptising has always been, (since just after the early church passed the method on) Pouring or sprinkling.

The modern Baptist Denomination mode is intrinsically linked to their denominational directives as "Baptist" - as invented in 1521 and called Anabaptist.

St Jeremiah wrote:
This is a self-translation from the Greek.
The English word "baptism" is transliterated from the Greek "baptizo." King James instructed the translators to not translate this and other eccesliastical words. Since most of the translators were Angelo-Catholics and believed in pedo-baptism and baptismal regeneration by sprinkling...chose not to translate the text...and in many cases where "baptizo" occured in the text...colored the translation to support baptismal regeneration over against the underlying Greek text.
I am translating "baptizo" over against this tradition so as to correctly state in English what is from the Greek.

AKA heresy.

1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

St Jeremiah wrote:
Those who accepted his message were immersed, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. Acts 2:41
They came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be immersed?" And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip immersed him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:36-39 (w/o vs. 37)
Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being immersed with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts 10:47, 48

Now c'mon Jerry!