Proorizo- from pro (before) and horizo (to mark out the boundaries or limits); to predetermine, decide beforehand
This concerns the life of the believer;
....to be conformed to the likeness of his Son.
This concerns our adoption;
...to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will. Eph 1:5
Also this concerns His choice;
In him we were also chosen (kleroo-to choose by lot)...according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will..Eph 1:11
And the next verse goes on to say;
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Or to put it in other words that Paul used;
He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Php 1:6
The focus is on sanctification and not soteriology.
DJC49 wrote:More like: total depravity In a "nice" sorta way.
In a "nice" sorta way.
The Cure wrote:So I guess your post from 2/21/08 10:35 below which you uses to respond to JD's momormism post was a complete waste of virtual space.Maybe you should've dedicated more time in what you claim you were addressing.
Maybe you should've dedicated more time in what you claim you were addressing.
The Cure wrote:So I guess your post from 2/21/08 10:35 below which you uses to respond to JD's momormism post was a complete waste of virtual space.
DJC49 wrote:What you don't seem to grasp is the fact that the Eternal God is not time-bound as we are. He doesn't plod through time. He sees everything as being *in the present*. We can only dimly imagine His knowing us from all eternity. But that fact is Scriptural:"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee" (Jer 1:5)God didn't merely conceptualize us before our historical existence; He didn't merely see down the corridors of time what we would be; rather, He SEES us AS PRESENT from all eternity ... NOW. God has no calendar nor watch! He sees the End from the Beginning. NOW!We're talkin' GOD'S TIMELESS forknowledge here and not man's weak, beggerly, and time-bound foreknowing as illustrated in Acts 26:5 and 2Peter 3:17.
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee" (Jer 1:5)
God didn't merely conceptualize us before our historical existence; He didn't merely see down the corridors of time what we would be; rather, He SEES us AS PRESENT from all eternity ... NOW. God has no calendar nor watch! He sees the End from the Beginning. NOW!
We're talkin' GOD'S TIMELESS forknowledge here and not man's weak, beggerly, and time-bound foreknowing as illustrated in Acts 26:5 and 2Peter 3:17.
The Cure wrote:Election is a concept based on the context of eternity past.***JD made a point about eternity past and you scolded him for doing so.***DO YOU NOT SEE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARD?
***JD made a point about eternity past and you scolded him for doing so.***
DO YOU NOT SEE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARD?
JD EQUATED what jago said about the words "know" and "foreknow" [see jago's post of 2/20/08 11:02 PM] to something a Morman said about God being the Father of spirits and that these spirits preexisted before being born into a physical body.
Sorry, but the 2 statements of the Morman and jago are NOT equivalent. They don't even come close to being related. But JD tried tying the 2 statements together! JD stated to jago that: "Now, you are telling us the SAME THING."
And it was for THIS that I chided him, Mr. Cure, and NOT for merely making a statement about eternity past.
Sorry, bud, but there's NO double standard whatsoever. You just can't read.
Ya know, it's geniuses such as yourself who want to tell us all about the SUPPOSED contradictions of Calvin's theological system and other such intracacies but who can't even read simple posts on a message board!
Go figure.
JD made a point about eternity past and you scolded him for doing so.
Do you not see your double standard?
If the past cannot be considered, then you might as well throw out the whole system of Calvinism where it belongs: in the trash.
You can't have it both ways folks.
Let me know if you need me to repeat it again.
The Cure wrote:What's classic is how the Calvinist makes up a whole doctrine on eternity past (predestination) and then turn around and state that the past does not matter when their theology is shown to be in error.Now that's classic!If the past cannot be considered, then you might as well throw out the whole system of Calvinism where it belongs: in the trash.You can't have it both ways folks.
Give it another shot, Mr. Cure, as the above quote was probably one of your more incoherent attempts to date.
Now that's classic!
JD wrote:Yes, and I witnessed to a Mormon last Saturday that told me the same thing. He said God is the Father of spirits and that the spirits preexisted before being born in a physical body. Now, you are telling us the same thing.What else do you have in common?
Sorry, JD, but a Mormon stating the falsity that people pre-existed as spirits before they were born is NOT the same thing as God's knowing us intimately (i.e., foreknowing us) before we came into physical existence.
What you don't seem to grasp is the fact that the Eternal God is not time-bound as we are. He doesn't plod through time. He sees everything as being *in the present*. We can only dimly imagine His knowing us from all eternity. But that fact is Scriptural:
29 For *WHOM* he did foreknow, he *ALSO* did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. = Here Paul clearly refers to THE Elect.
30 Moreover *WHOM* he did predestinate, *THEM* he also called: and *WHOM* he called, *THEM* he also justified: and *WHOM* he justified, *THEM* he also glorified. = Here Paul clearly refers to THE Elect.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? = Here Paul clearly refers to THE Elect.
God "foreknew" THE Elect.God "predestinated" THE Elect.God "Effectually called" the Elect.God is omniscient and omnipotent.God does not need to check sinners out before making HIS choice and decision.God does not need the cooperation of sinners to make His choice/decision.God saves THE Elect.
"So tell me, do you believe in election at all? And if you do, it is obviously conditional election, so tell me - on what condition does God elect? Then tell me where you find this in the Bible."
... That was the change of subject.
Sorry, you change the subject so much that I lose tract of which one is suppose to be the current one._______________________________________
Mr J wrote:WHERE DOES FAITH COME FROM?
To "What is foreknowledge"
TO "WHERE DOES FAITH COME FROM?"
Are you ever going to give a rebuttal to any of the answers I gave you?
You call this one way street where you give all the questions and none of the answers an intellectual discussion?
The Cure wrote:So, I take it from your response that you really do not have a rebuttal to my post on Romans 10:9 on faith being a condition for salvation.I told you that the Calvinist has all the questions but none of the answers.So the best you can do is to change the subject to foreknowledge. Before I give you another answer, may I ask how many times you will be changing the subject?
