John Yurich USA wrote:How come no Evangelical Protestant wants to respond to the above question?
"The Presbyterians hold that Christ is spiritually present in the Bread and Wine and we do share the body and blood of the Lord spiritually."[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist]]](Wiki)[/URL]
John Yurich USA wrote:Why do a lot of Evangelical Protestants believe that the Lutheran doctrine of Holy Communion is not scriptural? I totally accept the Lutheran doctrine of Holy Communion because it is more scriptural then the doctrine of Transubstantiation.
However, the best form of doctrine to hold is "fully" scriptural. And you are halfway there, so not far to go now. The last leg should not be so difficult as the first.
Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:28-29..."man ought to examine himself before he eats...For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself."
The individual needs to do the examination...not the Church, the Pastor or a board of elders. Only between God and the participant can it be determined whether they are worthy to participate or not.
These rites are indicated by the word Sacramentalia, the object of which is to manifest the respect due to the sacrament and to secure the sanctification of the faithful.
They belong to widely different categories, e.g.: substance, in the mingling of water with Eucharistic wine; quantity, in the triple baptismal effusion; quality, in the condition of unleavened bread; relation, in the capacity of the minister; time and place, in feast-days and churches; habit, in the liturgical vestments; posture, in genuflection, prostrations; action, in chanting etc.
So many external conditions connect the sacramentals with the virtue of religion, their object being indicated by the Council of Trent (Sess. XXII, 15), that it is asserted that apart from their ancient origin and traditional maintenance ceremonies, blessings, lights, incense, etc. enhance the dignity of the Holy Sacrifice and arouse the piety of the faithful. Moreover the sacramentals help to distinguish the members of the Church from heretics, who have done away with the sacramentals.
There is bondage to sin - or obedience to God.
Rom.8:21 - `Bondage versus liberty.`Is this Church estimation - return to bondage OR disobedience???If neither then carry out the prescribed sacrament iaw Scripture!
My concern was the way some pastors may be overdoing the "examine yourself" aspect. Calvin says it well: "it is not a perfect faith or repentance that is required,as some,by urging beyond due bounds,a perfection that can nowhere be found,would shut out for ever from the Supper every individual of mankind. If,however,thou aspirest after the righteousness of God with the earnest desire of thy mind,and,trembled under a view of thy misery,dost wholly lean upon Christ’s grace,and rest upon it,know that thou art a worthy guest to approach the table —worthy I mean in this respect,that the Lord does not exclude thee,though in another point of view there is something in thee that is not as it ought to be. For faith,when it is but begun,makes those worthy who were unworthy."
I still find the inconsistency in ones who would say it's 'Christian Liberty' to drink alcohol, but on areas not clearly defined, would put a yoke of bondage on.
msc said:The body and blood of the Lord shall be given only to baptized believers
Do you believe it is the ACTUAL body and blood of the Lord?
Also, then for you to be consistent it should be okay for infants to partake?
In Greek the word seems to mean something stronger. The actual way it is precisely stated in the Greek is:"..let prove but a man himself..."="let prove" is one word used elsewhere eg: 1Pet.1:7, Rom.12:2. It would seem a bit more introspective then!
Lexicon suggests it means - "to prove by trial, to test, assay metals, to prove, try, examine, scrutinise...etc.
And I think that goes for anytime we meet to pray or to study we should not expect benefits from God if we are living a life of double standards, I think the lords supper is being made into something its not(a mystical ritual)and I think we should be careful not to go back 500 years to popery.
LET A MAN EXAMINE HIMSELF.
