Mike wrote:Could this be an example of insufficient reformation? Both adhere to "our common understanding" of the Sprinkler System if I'm not mistaken. If the CofS were dunkers, they'd have to find some other common ground.
The problem with the Kirk is the abomination of Liberal religion which is creating the evil pestilence of ecumenism in all the Liberal "churches."
Bad enough that they seek to hold hands with the antichrist papists, but the reason - "Liberalism which has replaced Christianity" - demonstrates how far this mob has gone away from the Bible.They are even daft enough to be asking the RCC to commemorate the anniversary of the Scottish Reformation with them. In the 16th century the papists were busy burning the real Christians at the stake.
Any Christians left in the C of S should leave immediately since Christ does not lie with belial.
BTW At the same assembly this year they invited a Muslim to speak to them, who apparently spoke about how "ALL" religions should work together for peace.
Kestle wrote:Hows about this for Reformation Reversal??? "A CHURCH of Scotland body is urging congregations to celebrate their common baptism with Roman Catholics for the first time by using a special joint liturgy for the reaffirmation of baptismal vows. The groundbreaking call, seen as a monumental step in inter-church links, is made in the report of the Kirk's Ecumenical Relations Committee to the General Assembly. The liturgy was devised by the Joint Commission on Doctrine, made up of officials from both churches.Following an extensive study period which looked at our common understanding of baptism, this new service is now being recommended by the Ecumenical Relations Committee for use at major Christian festivals, such as Easter and Pentecost. This year Pentecost falls on the Sunday of General Assembly week (23 May). Theologically, both churches believe baptism involves conversion, pardoning and cleansing and marks the beginning of a new life in Christ, characterised by growth." (C.of.S. website)
"A CHURCH of Scotland body is urging congregations to celebrate their common baptism with Roman Catholics for the first time by using a special joint liturgy for the reaffirmation of baptismal vows.
The groundbreaking call, seen as a monumental step in inter-church links, is made in the report of the Kirk's Ecumenical Relations Committee to the General Assembly.
The liturgy was devised by the Joint Commission on Doctrine, made up of officials from both churches.
Following an extensive study period which looked at our common understanding of baptism, this new service is now being recommended by the Ecumenical Relations Committee for use at major Christian festivals, such as Easter and Pentecost. This year Pentecost falls on the Sunday of General Assembly week (23 May).
Theologically, both churches believe baptism involves conversion, pardoning and cleansing and marks the beginning of a new life in Christ, characterised by growth." (C.of.S. website)
john 14v15
Michael Hranek wrote:John UKYour post was an interesting one. It reminds me of how wrong and impossible it is to do the will of God with carnal human efforts or said in other words bring about genuine holiness by external complusion to man made precepts traditions and doctrines of men.
It's tantamount to legalism, really, when believers try to obey without the heart-desire. We should learn to love and worship before we 'do' anything.
Michael Hranek wrote:By the way you don't have to use an AV nor subscribe to the WCF etc. to love Jesus Christ as His forgiveness doesn't rest upon the 'RT' and Dhort etc. but in the blood He willingly shed for us on the cross...huge reason to love Him with all our heart, soul and mind.
John UK wrote:However, it must not ...
Jesus told us, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
This is quite a bit different from making ourselves into modern day Pharisee who might twist His word to false say 'If you love Me you will force other people to keep your commandments' isn't it? James states clearly I will show you my faith by my works quite a bit different from the Pharisees who were experts in keeping The Sabbath and lording it over others.
By the way you don't have to use an AV nor subscribe to the WCF etc. to love Jesus Christ as His forgiveness doesn't rest upon the 'RT' and Dhort etc. but in the blood He willingly shed for us on the cross...huge reason to love Him with all our heart, soul and mind.
Alan H wrote:[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/new_details3.asp?ID=23496]]]Reformed Churches and the Preservation of the Scriptures[/URL] Certainly there must be a church in Seattle or Everett, Washington, which is both reformed, Baptist, and which uses the Authorized Version. But I am still looking...
John UK wrote:...I came at it from a different angle, because in the UK there have been no IBC's with a KJV-only stance, and the majority of churches only used the AV because that was the accepted version. And so today, because these folks have no background knowledge as to the supremacy of the AV and the preservation of the texts, it is an easy matter to pull the wool over their eyes and introduce modern corrupted versions which ultimately will be to the detriment of the church.
John UK wrote:As to your other concern...
Graceamazing wrote:Alan HThe problem...what would you think of a Presbyterian who wouldn't listen to Spurgeon preaching? Or a Baptist who couldn't sit under John Newton or Robert Murray McCheyne? Sound preaching is what is important.
Thank you for your very encouraging words and advice. As for the above statement, I would say that a person who refused to listen to these persons simply on the basis of baptismal differences is mistaken in their conviction.
I have no problem fellowshipping with those who are reformed in their theology, who hold to infant baptism, provided they understand and acknowledge that it is not a saving act. As I mentioned, my family and I attended a "Free Reformed" church for a while and we were blessed by the preaching. The pastor of that assembly, knowing that we disagreed upon the issue of baptism, recommended that we find a church which we could join and participate in, and so we left. I have searched for Presbyterian churches in our area which use the Authorized Version and have been very disheartened by what I have found. We are flooded with Presbyterian churches in our area, but I have only been able to find one which uses the AV, and there were other issues involved with that church.
The problem...what would you think of a Presbyterian who wouldn't listen to Spurgeon preaching? Or a Baptist who couldn't sit under John Newton or Robert Murray McCheyne? Sound preaching is what is important.
I think you are correct to seek a church that solidly sticks with the KJV and better still one that supports the Reformed Trinitarian Bible Society. I know you have Baptist convictions but I would rather sit under God's chosen instrument (preacher) who might differ on Baptism, yet whose preaching is in the power of a John Knox.
Simply by listening to UK churches here on SA that are Protestant and use the KJV, I have found **much** blessing.
Try this link and see if you agree it is balanced on the subject of baptism:[URL=http://www.freepres.org/sep_details.asp?sep_baptism]]]Here[/URL]
The option is to attend a Reformed church that isn't Baptist, but evangelically Protestant that is within travelling distance. To move away. To contact Reformed Baptist brethren with your convictions and pray for a church plant in your area. May God bless you brother and may you find like minded brethren in your locality and may God be glorified in your familly and witness
Michael Hranek wrote:Interesting comments.IMO the issue in finding a church goes deep into actually being followers/disciples of Jesus Christ not just people who can rattle off a whole lot of information about Him.
However, it must not have schismatically introduced a modern version as that would confuse me, and we know "God is not the author of confusion". Oh and it must believe the biblical "doctrines of Free and Sovereign Grace" otherwise it is not a Bible-believing church. Oh and it must believe in the biblical believer's baptism, otherwise it is not a Bible Church. Oh and there must be no collection during the service, because that is not biblical. Oh and I'm not sure about singing hymns, perhaps the Bible says we should worship with only psalms, but whatever the Bible teaches, that is what we must do.
You see, Michael, that I am trying to be a disciple (learner) of Jesus Christ, by holding only to what Jesus says in his word.
IMO the issue in finding a church goes deep into actually being followers/disciples of Jesus Christ not just people who can rattle off a whole lot of information about Him.
Scripture makes it clear the righteous man shall live by faith.
And if a church is to be righteous (together as individuals) its members must have faith IN JESUS CHRIST (NOT MERELY ABOUT HIM) and/to follow Him.
Saddly it seems we can argue correct Bible translations, have Bible studies (and know lots of Bible stories-the Pharisees did that), memorize whatever confessions we believe to be correct etc. etc. and yet dispite all this we can do on our own in our religion be far from God.
But we simply cannot humbly honestly seek for God seek to learn of Him and be obedient to His will with all our hearts in prayer in listening to what He Himself says to us in His word without "finding Him" without growing in a real knowledge and experience of Him of the Son of God Jesus Christ, of Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God in our lives.
In short shouldn't we seek to be a part of a church where people actually know God and not just know about Him?
As I see it, there are now too many factors in choosing a church to attend. It becomes impossible, as we are finding out. I love the Met Tab, but a 7 hour journey to church?
As to your other concern, give me a few more months and I may have arrived at a better position, although scholars seem not to have delved as far as we were trying to go.
I feel sorry for my boys because tho we have family worship and they come to church no problem and we have a small independent bible study group with our own (retired) minister our nearest (more or less) reformed church (NIV) is 25 miles away so they have no fellowship nor ever had with boys and girls their own age.
Im sure it would make a difference if they had christian friends but they dont , sometimes the youth group at the church have an outing and I take them along to that but after school they dont want to travel back to town 25 miles to attend the youth club
Other times i think that its Gods wish that they arent involved with a 'youth ministry' and spend time with adults instead. But i suspectt its very encouraging for youngsters to spend time with other young believers but sometimes these groups can be trivial and unsound.
I can find a few reformed churches in my area which use the Authorized Version, but which are not Baptist. Been there, too! Two out of three in this case is bad. While baptism is not essential to salvation, it is important for unity. I spent a long time with my family in a "Free Reformed Church" we couldn't join because we were baptists.
There are several "Reformed Baptist" churches in my area, but none of them use the Authorized Version.
[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/new_details3.asp?ID=23496]]]Reformed Churches and the Preservation of the Scriptures[/URL]
Certainly there must be a church in Seattle or Everett, Washington, which is both reformed, Baptist, and which uses the Authorized Version. But I am still looking...
Am I expecting too much? This problem has caused a great deal of stress in my family. I am the spiritual leader in our home and I can't even find a church we can attend without compromising my convictions.
princecharles wrote:I'm very pleased with my church....
I would join up, but I don't like special diets either... mince pies only churches
[URL=http://images9.cafepress.com/product/34633699v1_480x480_Front_Color-White.jpg]]]I couldn't wear the t-shirt[/URL]
"Yes, I've had to leave a church in the recent past, or I am still between churches."
With my condition being so serious, I cannot hack being amongst people who show so little love and concern, and some who will not believe me when I say I have to be on a special diet, and they try to force mince pies down my throat, or tell me I'm being conned. I'm sorry to have to say it, but extant churches are not generally walking in the Spirit and showing the love of Christ. Those who are healthy and strong may be able to cope with the infighting, power struggles, Xmas trees, and general sorts of backbiting and gossiping; but me, well it just makes me very sad.
Thankfully, the Lord Jesus knows all things, and has pity on his children, especially those who are forced out of fellowship by religious but backslidden professors of faith.
I get more sense out of my ungodly doctor and consultant, who have recommended I stay on my diet for my health's sake, than from brethren and sisters who accuse me of malingering.
These are simple facts, and need saying, especially as it seems there are many more out there who also ticked the first box.
May the Lord bless all separated brethren, and grant you to know his delightful presence.
