Ben,
I was saved while in a very low state. And it was not "loving" of the Church not urge me on to a new life in Christ, but insted to stumble me to go back to my old Rock-Drug-Culture ways.
CCM is wicked, and I have the scars to prove it. Go to the home page for Cornerstone and tell me these people are not complety lost, if you can (warning: you will be defiled).
The issue here is understanding what LOVE is.
Human love, common to all people, is indulgent and selfish.
Christian love is allways governed by the TRUTH of God's WORD. It is discerning and challenging. What we have is this survey is, therefore, very loving to all of the body of Christ.
As much as I used to value Mr. Piper's work, I now must love the truth and the Church more, and speak out against what he is doing.
What is the aim of all of this? The restoration of John Piper, those who follow him, and any of God's people who might be in the fad of neo-calvinism.
Love speaks out:
2 Timothy 4:2-3 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears...
Benjamin wrote:Are these comments from believers in Jesus? Wow. They sound Pharisaical. Sad. These comments are indicative of the very reasons why so many young people are ditching the fundamentalist movement. "You have forgotten your first love." You've stopped exalting Jesus Christ higher than your personal preferences and traditions.
Or could it be exalting (and still have) the kind of music, culture and life style one likes above one's love of Jesus Christ (and the things one must give up for Him)? And also would it be a stumbling block to ones Christ has saved out of that "culture" to slide back into it once again?
There is an insightful verse inDeut 189 “When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations.
So I believe one has to have some honest, Biblically honest discernment in the matter.
Brothers and sisters, please heed the warning of Mt 7:21. I love you because Jesus loved me and he loves you, his flock. Oh, what tragedy it would be to hear you say on that day, "Lord, Lord, didn't we follow all the right religious rules? Didn't we abstain from rap music and those who look and talk differently than us religious folk? Didn't we work hard to point out the 'heretics' who listen to rap or rock music?"Brothers and sisters, this is appeal to you to get back to the Gospel in your hearts. "And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
It is a website called RECOVER THE GOSPEL.COM It is full of what is called "Holy Hip Hop" and "Sermon Jams".
[URL=http://www.recoverthegospel.com/]]]http://www.recoverthegospel.com/[/URL]
John Piper is well represented, and is shown in the video section with a rapper in his church on the Lord's Day doing the the "song" "Unstoppable". It can be seen here: [URL=http://www.recoverthegospel.com/?page_id=39]]]http://www.recoverthegospel.com/?page_id=39[/URL]
I also think the website Illbehonest.com fits into this catigory.
It has taken me awhile to see how dangerous this stuff is.
[URL=http://www.theopedia.com/Federal_Vision]]]http://www.theopedia.com/Federal_Vision[/URL]
Here is Piper's video on UTube where he defends this choice of Wilson, it has close to 4000 views and many comments from alarmed people.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gprGHoMzar0]]]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gprGHoMzar0[/URL]
I think this is a sad and telling turning point in the ministry of John Piper. I now fear many are in danger because of his vast popularity. God have mercy on us all.
[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10507193940]]]The Heart of the Matter - October 5, 2007 Edition[/URL]
Pastor Ralph Ovadal interviews Pastor Timothy Williams: Essential Doctrines at Heart of Federal Vision Controversy
Worldliness in Calvinistic Churches has been the most disterbing thing, as I have been looking for a Church for five years! I marvel how few Churches there are even if one is willing to relocate.
I have been slow to see the issues, but have had questions about Piper for some time. His recent tribute to Billy Graham on his blog was a major red flag for me. It is pure fluff. Now I see that the music issue is key as well.
Do any of you think that Doug Wilson has gotten a bad rap? If so, can you tell me why?
Thanks all.
Janet wrote:Regarding another aspect of the ministry of John Piper (and others):[URL=http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/?page=articles&id=13]]]The Merger of Calvinism with Worldliness[/URL] by Dr. Peter Masters
I enjoyed reading it, and agree wholeheartedly with it. Peter Masters sure is being used by the Lord to edify, warn, teach, encourage, exhort, rebuke, and reprove, in these last days.
[URL=http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/?page=articles&id=13]]]The Merger of Calvinism with Worldliness[/URL] by Dr. Peter Masters
