Walt wrote:Smith,Those are some pretty bold allegations against all Calvinists.
Those are some pretty bold allegations against all Calvinists.
The floor is yours, JD.
That's hardly a conspiracy theory fellows.
Weapon of Mass Instruction= Yamil Luciano
Doctor of Truth= Yamil Luciano
Yamil Luciano= Yamil Luciano
It's not rocket science folks. You guys make the simplest things hard.
I see. I've noticed by most of the Arminians this is sort of a new method to use multiple names when posting.
Thanks for the information. That will pull me out of the discussion now that I know.
Lurker wrote:His previous dogmatic misrepresentation was that election is the foundation of the reformed's faith and since that didn't produce the fruit of contention he desired he's come up with a new angle. Just though you would want to know.
Jesus died for those already elected, according to you. Election is first!
You may already know but just in case you do not; "Smith" is JD which accounts for his absolute statements below. The tenor of his post is a fairly recent tactic to provoke a discussion with someone from the reformed camp since no one who has been around SA for a while will waste their time with him or submit to his misrepresentations or abuse.
His previous dogmatic misrepresentation was that election is the foundation of the reformed's faith and since that didn't produce the fruit of contention he desired he's come up with a new angle. Just though you would want to know.
"The connection between baptism and circumcision is quite clear in Colossians 2:11-12. The connection is not direct, but indirect and the point of contact between them is Christ and baptism is the sign and seal of that circumcision. In v.11 Paul says "in him [i.e. in Christ] you were also circumcised with the circumcision done by Christ" and in v.12 he says exactly how it is that we were circumcised in and by Christ: "having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith...." For Paul, in the New covenant, our union with Christ is our circumcision. In baptism, we are identified with Christ's baptism/circumcision, as it were, on the cross. Neither baptism nor circumcision effects this union (ex opere operato), rather God the Spirit unites us to Christ, makes us alive and gives us faith."
"The point not to be missed is that, in Paul's mind, baptism and circumcision are both signs and seals of Christ's baptism/circumcision on the cross for us. By faith, we are united to Christ's circumcision and by union with Christ we become participants in his circumcision/baptism" (R S Clark)
The Calvinist handbook wrote:
The Bible states:
Acts 7:51 wrote:"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
The dehvastating truth is that NO WHERE in the Bible does it state that the Holy Spirit is irrisistible.
Now is the reader suppose to accept a simple declarative statement from God's word or is he suppose to make sense out of your convulted, redefining, revisionist, who-cares-about-the-laws-of-language, reinterpretation?
Ok. I'm ready for your itchty-twitchy dance now.
Would you care to now quote a Calvinist on points #1 and #2 below and show us with Scripture the error and your firm position that proves the Calvinist quote is wrong?
I really would love to see your position as I have read both sides of the argument on points #1 and #2, as well as the other points, but would be most interested to see your allegations proven. Maybe you could help me see the differences more clearly using Scripture.
You seem to really know what you are talking about as you are speaking with such authority. You say:
"Here are some glaring deficiencies of understanding of all calvs. I said all calvs! All means all in this case."
I am one of the all and would love to see your arguments. Thanks.
Weapon of Mass Instruction wrote:I thin One OneCov'T should give us an original and genuine exegesis if he is going to live up to his title.Until then he should change his location from "exegesis" to "cut and paste."
1) They have NO understanding of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the OT.
2) They have NO understanding of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the NT.
3) They cannot accurately define the church of Jesus Christ in the context of their theology.
4) They do not have understanding of the significance of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
5) They do not understand regeneration.
6) They cannot distinguish the difference in the ministry of God, the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
7) They cannot, nor do they understand or even recognize the gospel of God.
8) They do not understand the new birth
Until then he should change his location from "exegesis" to "cut and paste."
OneCov'T wrote:ANDOf course the children of promise ARE the children who are *elect* and *covenanted* with God.As Paul said, - not all Israel is Israel.
One MUST remember that Paul is writing this letter 28 years after the beginning of the church when the Holy Spirit was given to regenerate believers by indwelling them. Sufficient time had past to explain that the sons of Jacob (Israel) were clearly divided into fleshly and Christians. This is the point. This is about Israel in this age since the cross.
Ro 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Ro 9:26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Only the church are children of God. When the church is complete God will once agin deal with Israel and save them.
JD wrote:This gentleman is completely wrong about everything he has mentioned........Israel is the people of God, the church is the family of God. They are different! Ro 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Keep trying JD. PS I believe you are wrong again.
Yes, I confess to having read John Hagee's book Jerusalem Countdown. Was that a sin? Do you ever read anything other than the Bible and would you confess it as a sin? I don't agree with the John Hagee's reportedly charismatic church, but I must admit his book has some good information in it about the situation in the world with the Islamic terrorism and nuclear threat of Iran. Maybe you should read it. You might learn a thing or two. Not all people are either sheep or goats; there are some which have a lot of truth about some things, yet may hold some error.
Hee Haw!!!!
OneCov'T wrote:Thus we cannot say that there are two completely different "churches" or peoples of God. Paul teaches clearly in Romans 2:29; 4 [all]; 9:6-9 and Jesus teaches explicitly in John 8:31-58 no one is saved by being Jewish."(R.S. Clark)
Israel is the people of God, the church is the family of God. They are different!
Everyone who believes is the true son of Abraham.(Rom 4:11,17). Romans 9:6-9 teaches that a Jew is one who loves the Messiah Jesus and trusts him only for salvation.(1Cor 10:3, Eph2:8/9).
Thus we cannot say that there are two completely different "churches" or peoples of God. Paul teaches clearly in Romans 2:29; 4 [all]; 9:6-9 and Jesus teaches explicitly in John 8:31-58 no one is saved by being Jewish."(R.S. Clark)
"Indwelling sin always abides whilst we are in this world; therefore it is always to be mortified. The vain, foolish, and ignorant disputes of men about perfect keeping the commands of God, of perfection in this life, of being wholly and perfectly dead to sin, I meddle not now with.
It is more than probable that the men of those abominations never knew what belonged to the keeping of any one of God's commands, and are so much below perfection of degrees, that they never attained to a perfection of parts in obedience or universal obedience in sincerity.
And, therefore, many in our days who have talked of perfection have been wiser, and have affirmed it to consist in knowing no difference between good and evil. Not that they are perfect in the things we call good, but that all is alike to them, and the height of wickedness is their perfection.
Others who have found out a new way to it, by denying original, indwelling sin, and tempering the spirituality of the law of God unto men's carnal hearts, as they have sufficiently discovered themselves to be ignorant of the life of Christ and the power of it in believers, so they have invented a new righteousness that the gospel knows not of, being vainly puffed up by their fleshly minds."(J. Owen)
"TO THE CHRISTIAN READER, ESPECIALLY HEADS OF FAMILIES"
Part of this intro reads::
"The first concerns heads of families in respect of themselves; That as the Lord hath set them in place above the rest of their family, they would labour in all wisdom and spiritual understanding to be above them also. It is an uncomely sight to behold men in years babes in knowledge; and how unmeet are they to instruct others, who need themselves to be taught which be the first principles of the oracles of God, Heb. v. 12. Knowledge is an accomplishment so desirable, that the devils themselves knew not a more taking bait by which to tempt our first parents, than by the fruit of the tree of knowledge; So shall you be as gods, knowing good and evil. When Solomon had that favour shewed him of the Lord, that to lie was made his own chuser what to ask, he knew no greater mercy to beg than wisdom, 1 Kings iii. 5, 9. The understanding is the guide and pilot of the whole man, that faculty which sits at the stern of the soul: but as the most expert guide may mistake in the dark, so may the understanding, when it wants the light of knowledge"
We should not forget it is a teaching document, not replacing the Bible.
The WCF is silent on biblical prophecy. Biblical prophecy was not a high point in the churches of the Reformation in general and is of no interest to the Reformed churches.
One exception was in a Bible study we attended in a Presbyterian church in the 1980s where the Pastor was very knowledgeable on prophecy and taught a series on the Book of Daniel. It was fascinating.
I wonder if anyone else has read John Hagee's book called "Jerusalem Countdown". He says we are in the third world war at the present time and there will be a nuclear blast in the middle east before long. He thinks this will "transform the road to Armageddon into a racetrack". Whether he is accurate about that I don't know, but his book seems to be right on.
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