1 John 2:18
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
Michael Hranek(?) wrote:Dr(?) Phil Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Seems that God wonderfully makes His will so clear you don't have to be a doctor, just a sinner who desperately wants to be saved, to understand it.
Also, God's will is very clear, but should we presume that men by nature can see it clearly?
JD wrote:But, I am greatly troubled and instructed by the comments by most of your people here on this subject.
Mike wrote:Yet there was still no death until sin entered. It was sin that brought forth death. What state then existed before the fall?
Finally1Jo 1.2 Eternal life *IS* Jesus, also at 1Jo 5.11, 20.
On the “Tree of life”Apart from a few analogous refs in Proverbs, “tree of life” doesn’t appear again until Revelation.Re 2.7 – Those who overcome are allowed, by God, to eat of the tree of life in paradise.Re 22.2 - on either side of the river, (water of life) was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.Re 22.14 – Some get the “right” to the tree of life.
So Mike eternal life I believe was not in Adam/Eve. BUT until they sinned neither was death. Leaving eternal life STILL a gift.
Don't take this personally DJC49 because it could apply to many of your tribe on here but for one to be as ignorant as you seem to be in certain areas one must make a great effort and I think you are just pulling my leg at times.
You have much too low a view of Adam. Speaking of Cain and Adam, God did not say anything bad about Adam like he did Cain. For instance, he said this about Cain; Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain,
He never warned people to not go after the way of Adam. Was Adam's sin of introducing death into the world worse than Cain's sin of killing a single man, his brother?
I mentioned the types. I said we learn about Christ by looking at the clearly designated type, Adam but the reverse is also true. We can learn things about Adam by looking at the person of Christ and reading the comparisons and contrasts.
But, I am greatly troubled and instructed by the comments by most of your people here on this subject. I believe you deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh!
Two Ways wrote:Tell me Mike why did the Lord plant the "Tree of Life?"Your assumption (correct me if I', Wrong) here is that Adam and Eve were created with eternal life.So ok lets run with that one.Adam and Eve did NOT require the Tree of Life, because they would live for eternity, unless they sinned.But they did sin.So the tree of life was for non-eternals to eat from. But they were eternal until they sinned and were kicked out of Eden.So the tree of life is for what?People to munch on when the Lord grants His elect eternal life?If we go back to life in the garden. Assuming, if we say, Adam was eternal, then the tree of life is irrelevant to him. Even if we play it that God foreknew that Adam would sin, again why plant the tree which provides immortality? God is not going to let him anywhere near it is He.Thus the problem is why did God plant a tree with no function in the Eden "circumstance" He created.Unless eternity was NOT as long as Adam could live for. Then there was a purpose behind it.
Yet there was still no death until sin entered. It was sin that brought forth death. What state then existed before the fall? What is the state of death-excluding life called?
Michael Hranek wrote:So what is God's revealed will?
21 Hath not the POTTER power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel UNTO HONOUR, and another unto DISHONOUR?
Michael Hranek wrote:This can likely apply to those who put their faith in "total irresistable predestination" and imagining that since they believe such a, can I say horrid doctrine, they must be spiritually alive and "elect" because the "non-elect" won't believe such a thing...so they never see their need to have personal faith in Jesus Christ that He would save them from their sins and are part of the very religious lost.
And BTW, there are both the saved and unsaved on either side of the elect/freewill doctrinal debate. And giving personal testimonies over the internet is about as validating of a particular held doctrine as stating what shoe size you wear in order to prove what day it is.
And another thing, Michael ...Your post of 7/2/08 3:10 PM has an obvious logical nonsequitur within it:"if someone coming from a particular doctrinal position glarringly omits any mention of personal testimony of how Jesus Christ saved them and their thankfulness to Him for so doing something is amiss with their theology from its foundation."Omitting a personal testimony does NOT invalidate a doctrinal position! Sheesh!
Michael Hranek wrote:This can likely apply to those who put their faith in "total irresistable predestination"
Name the person or persons that stated THEIR FAITH was in total and irresistible predestination?
Dr. Phil wrote:If you do not know what this is, then you have not believed the truth.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Seems that God wonderfully makes His will so clear you don't have to be a doctor, just a sinner who desperately wants to be saved, to understand it.
Michael Hranek wrote:Observer,I think it is safe to observe if someone coming from a particular doctrinal position glarringly omits any mention of personal testimony of how Jesus Christ saved them and their thankfulness to Him for so doing something is amiss with their theology from its foundation.
Because someone does not mention their testimoney on a public website forum discussing theology does not make them less thankful to God for their salvation. Your arguement is without substance and very shallow.
Minnow wrote:Matt 7.21"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
This can likely apply to those who put their faith in "total irresistable predestination" and imagining that since they believe such a, can I say horrid doctrine, they must be spiritually alive and "elect" because the "non-elect" won't believe such a thing...so they never see their need to have personal faith in Jesus Christ that He would save them from their sins and are part of the very religious lost.
So what is God's revealed will?
JD wrote:DJC49Do you actually think Adam was a cave man? He communed right in the presence of God. Do you think the smartyest man in the universe ever created would not have known he was naked? Do you know when you are naked?Who else in the Scriptures was covered with the Shekinah glory?
Who else in the Scriptures was covered with the Shekinah glory?
Second, God asked Adam: "Who told thee thou wast naked?" Evidently, God didn't think Adam was all that smart if He insinuated that Adam would have to be TOLD by someone [Eve?] that he was naked!
Third, if being in the presence of God confers upon someone the Shekinah glory, then I would guess that CAIN had that same Shekinah glory since he too was in the presence of the LORD for it is written:
"And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden." [Gen 4:16 KJV]
Hey ... see if you can find out for me in that wacky version of the Bible you've been using if CAIN also had the Shekinah glory ... as did Adam. Hahaha!
Michael Hranek wrote:Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Matt 7.21"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Now Michael, did these guys "believe on Jesus" - Note how they called Him "Lord, Lord" - and "did things in His Name"(good works?)
SO what else is required?
"then will I profess unto them, **I NEVER KNEW YOU**"
Thus......4 "According as HE HATH CHOSEN us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL"
Now that sounds just like ELECTION.Doesn't it Michael.
Observer wrote:Michael,You said, "I did notice in your post to me you mentioned NOTHING of you yourself personally believing in the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from your sins. How sad."You always wrongly judge people. So what if Two Ways didn't mention his testimoney. This is not a "share your testimoney" forum it is a doctrinal forum to discuss and comment on Bible doctrine.
Especially when such a doctrinal position seemingly opposes the very thought people can cry out to God to save them from their sins.
Let me paraphrase here"Show me your doctrinal belief without a personal testimony of salvation and I will show you my doctrinal postion by my personal testimony of how Jesus Christ saved a wretch like me.
And God's word stands no matter what doctrinal position would seek to nullify His PROMISE:
Mike wrote:My last post:....because he sinned. Yet God created him with eternal life, calling his creation very good.......... Upon sin, Adam became less than he was. He can't be labeled less before the fact of it."
Upon sin, Adam became less than he was. He can't be labeled less before the fact of it."
Your assumption (correct me if I', Wrong) here is that Adam and Eve were created with eternal life.So ok lets run with that one.
Adam and Eve did NOT require the Tree of Life, because they would live for eternity, unless they sinned.But they did sin.
So the tree of life was for non-eternals to eat from. But they were eternal until they sinned and were kicked out of Eden.
So the tree of life is for what?People to munch on when the Lord grants His elect eternal life?
If we go back to life in the garden. Assuming, if we say, Adam was eternal, then the tree of life is irrelevant to him. Even if we play it that God foreknew that Adam would sin, again why plant the tree which provides immortality? God is not going to let him anywhere near it is He.
Thus the problem is why did God plant a tree with no function in the Eden "circumstance" He created.
Unless eternity was NOT as long as Adam could live for. Then there was a purpose behind it.
You said, "I did notice in your post to me you mentioned NOTHING of you yourself personally believing in the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from your sins. How sad."
You always wrongly judge people. So what if Two Ways didn't mention his testimoney. This is not a "share your testimoney" forum it is a doctrinal forum to discuss and comment on Bible doctrine.
Two Ways wrote:Michael &MikeSorry fellas you've missed the train on that one.Two Ways:::....Michael has Jesus "chosen" you
Michael has Jesus "chosen" you
Yes!!! Jesus has choosen me and He told me so after I was saved
I did notice in your post to me you mentioned NOTHING of you yourself personally believing in the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from your sins. How sad.
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