On the basis of this truth -- that there is no volition in the womb -- I argue that there is no life in the womb, for one cannot separate life from volition (that is, except in the perverse thinking of the ultra-Calvinist).
Volition is the essence of life; apart from volition, life has no significance.
The point of Romans 9:11 (in context) is to identify the objects of election (Jacob) and reprobation (Esau) in the Christian age. The passage is not given as a lesson on when life begins. But then you don't seem to care much about context or the inerrancy and internal consistency of the entire bible. You have set yourself up as the final authority of which books of the bible are inspired and which are not. This pick and choose attitude gives life to heresy and cults.
Yes, born-again believers are to be salt and light in all aspects of life; political office isn't excluded.
Would you please come over to my thread and teach my little children a few examples and distinctions between Scriptural salvation verses Arminian free-will false salvation?
Answer not a fool according to his folly lest thou be found like unto him
Well, what is that really supposed to mean? I don't like to to keep my head in the sand, I just genuinely don't know?
Michael
Tyndale 1534
And why do you not answer concerning Romans 9:11 and Jeremiah 1:5?
I am forced to conclude that you and others do not address the matter of Romans 9:11 and the matter of Jeremiah 1:5 because you are unable to do so without demonstrating your error.
Clearly you choose to set aside the Word of God in order to hold to your own tradition, Mark 7:9.
The Word of God in Psalm 127 tells us that Children are an heritage of the Lord; and the fruit of the womb His reward.
Whether you think life starts after birth or not, the child is given by God and neither man, nor woman, has the authority to remove that fetus from a woman's body in order to stop a birth of a precious child in this world.
There is indeed life in the womb, one can feel that precious baby kicking even in the mother's belly while it is developing. Sonagrams and other tests have shown that the fetus can indeed feel pain even in the first trimester. In order for something to feel pain, that thing HAS TO HAVE LIFE.
Children in the womb are alive, not simply a “fetus”
(Jeremiah 20:17; Hosea 12:3; Luke 1:41,44; Romans 9:11). Pregnant women are “with child” (Genesis 16:11; 1 Sam. 4:19; 2 Sam. 11:5; 2 Kings 15:16; Ecc. 11:5; Isaiah 26:17-18; Jeremiah 31:8; Hosea 13:16; Amos 1:13; Matthew 1:18,23; 24:19; Mark 13:17; Luke 2:5; 21:23; 1 Thes. 5:3; Rev. 12:2), not simply “with fetus.” Clearly, God also cares about infants (Isaiah 49:15; Luke 18:15-16).
Answer the question which I posed: If there is no volition in the womb, how can you argue that there is life in the womb?
And, from the example of the animation of Adam, it is obvious that the breath of life is imparted upon the first inhale. A stillborn foetus which never takes a breath never was imparted life.
Jesus gave the answer: "13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 5:13-16
The Christian has no business holding political office in the dominion of Caesar, of which he is no citizen.
If you get to choose what part of scripture is truth then you become the truth maker.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
When does abortion become murder? Is it one second after it leaves the womb? Is it right after the umbilical cord is severed from the mother?
Murder is the taking of a life. When a pregnant woman feels her baby kicking isn’t it logical to say that the baby is alive? Does the baby have a soul in the womb or does it have to wait until it is born?
Even the same law that permits abortion would arrest you for double homicide if you killed a pregnant mother. Only God creates life and when God said thou shalt not murder I do believe he was including the unborn.
But if the passage indeed demonstrates that there is life in the womb, it also demonstrates that there is life prior to conception. And that would mean that God forms "souls" and then plugs the "soul" into the body. And that would mean that the body is merely a vehicle for the "soul", so that any "soul" can be born to any pair of parents in any age of history.
But the Scripture declares that man, rather than POSSESSING a "soul", IS a soul. Man is a chemical organism which, at the point of birth, is animated by a God-given "breath of life", Genesis 2:7, Genesis 3:19. Conception ultimately brings into existence more than a body; it brings into being the very nature of the individual.
Inasmuch as volition is the central issue of life, how can you argue that life exists until volition is active?
And be ware of making a false accusation. To argue correctly concerning the point at which God imparts the breath of life is NOT to advocate abortion.
I am NOT an advocate of abortion. But I do love truth.
The question at issue is not whether abortion is sinful; the question is whether abortion is murder.
We have been warned concerning such Jewish fabrications: I Timothy 1:4, 4:7, II Timothy 4:4, Titus 1:14, and we have been admonished to prove all things, I Thessalonians 5:21.
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