Did Jesus and the Apostles really teach that the church will be raptured out of the earth before the Great Tribulation or is this view a serious theological mistake? Did the early church fathers who had sat at the feet of the Apostles teach a pretribulation rapture? When in church history did the concept of the pretribulation rapture first appear? Does the supposition that Israel and the Church have two distinct identities and destinies really keep the Church from going through the Great Tribulation? Hear some amazing and candid admissions by prominent Pretribulationists like Drs. John Walvoord and Charles Ryrie. This informative discussion raises these and other critical issues which every Pretribulationist must resolve if they are to hold to their position with any confidence. Dr. Stewart was a Pretribulationist whose independent study of the Bible and church history has caused him to rethink his position on this hotly contested subject. Have your Bible, pen, and pad in hand as you listen today, or mark this message so you can return later to wrestle with the key questions it raises for all who love His Appearing!
A SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL: Below are a series of comments from listeners regarding this message. Controversial comments are included in hopes of encouraging discussion and interchange for the benefit of all. Thanks to supporters and critics alike!
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“ Great Sermon! ” I understand this is an debate solely among premillenialists. But I’m a postmillenialist. Let me just point out the verse that says that “no man will say to his brother ‘know the Lord’, for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest.â€
Michael Garcia (5/19/2023)
from SF Bay Area
“ Great Sermon! ” Rev 3:10 the word - keep - doesn't mean raptured or caught up. It means to guard, to take care of, attend to. People always use Rev 3:10 to prove that they will be raptured before the great tribulation. The church at Philadelphia and Smyrna will be the two witnesses, the two lamp stands during the GT. The people of God that are like those two churches in Rev will bare witness of Christ gospel. The other five lamp stand churches are apostates and God will not use them in the GT. We will go through it! Be ready.
Florin Motiu (12/29/2021)
from Oradea, Romania
“ Great truths. ” This was a very good message. I am glad to hear that this speaker believes that the Church will go through the Tribulation. It is so relevant especially in times like these...
Steven (3/12/2020)
from Hawaii
“ What about the church in Philadelphia? ” Revelation 3:10...: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (Christ's waiting to rule), I (Jesus) will keep thee from the hour of temptation (tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
This verse strongly suggests a pre-tribulation offer (rapture) as I understand it.
How a believer understands God's Word (the Bible) in this case does not affect the believer's salvation. Our waiting for the blessed hope of the Lord Jesus' return, at any moment, should affect how we live though. That is another reason why I see more merit in a pre-trib rapture position over the other positions, which do not look for the Lord's possible return at any moment.
Dr. Charles A. Stewart (1/11/2018)
from Fort Worth, Texas
“ Who Populates the Millennium? ” Thanks, Pacman76706, for listening! Please read my previous comments for a fuller answer to your question. Let me say at this point that I find no clear evidence that ALL unbelievers will be destroyed at the Return of the King. We only KNOW for sure that it is those unbelievers who resist Jesus' Coming who are for certain destroyed at Armageddon. I suggest that those unbelievers elsewhere who are WILLING to submit to Jesus' rule will be allowed to enter into the Messianic Kingdom. Why would Jesus need to rule in His earthly Kingdom with a rod of iron (Rev. 12:5, 19:15) if only resurrected Believers inhabit the Kingdom? And if only the resurrected Redeemed inhabit the Kingdom, where do all the babies come from (Rev.20:7-9) that comprise the multitude led by Satan in his final rebellion? It appears that some submissive unbelievers are allowed into the Kingdom whose presence (and ultimate rebellion) will demonstrate conclusively the absolute depravity of fallen man even in the near perfect conditions of the Messianic Kingdom with Jesus visibly and gloriously reigning on the Throne of David in Jerusalem AND Who is assisted by glorified Saints in His reign!
Dr. Charles A. Stewart (1/11/2018)
from Fort Worth, Texas
“ Thanks Giancarlos for your comment ” Thanks, Giancarlos, for your thoughtful comment. I am a BIG admirer of Dr. John MacArthur and have been for more than forty years. Anything he says MUST be taken seriously, and I ALWAYS do. However, it is his understanding of the identity and nature of both Israel and the church which lead him to embracing a pre-trib rapture. If this understanding is incorrect, so on this point, so will be his deduction of a pre-trib rapture. I hope he is correct, but remain unconvinced that he is on this point. Your quote of Dr. MacArthur, while relevant to the discussion, does NOT refute a post-tribulation rapture. If, as I suspect, the Holy Spirit will move in astonishing ways during the first half of the final seven years, He will position each Believer (willing to obey His voice) to the exact place in the world for him/her to have an optimal evangelistic ministry that will occur during the final half of the seven years. As God protected and provided for Israel during the plagues of Egypt, He will have no difficulty providing for the Faithful during the Great Tribulation. We will NOT hunker down in bunkers!!! We will stand on the rooftops and shout the Gospel...and consider it an honor to lay down our lives for the honor of our King! Come, Lord Jesus!
Pacman76706 (10/29/2017)
from Texas
“ But... ” If the Poat-Trib Rapture theory is correct, who populates the Millennium?
Dr. Charle Stewart (7/1/2014)
“ Great Sermon! ” Thanks, Alfred, for listening! This is an important and timely subject, to be sure. No, I am not amillennial. I believe the Scriptures do teach a literal 1000 year reign of Christ. It is our ecclesiology that impacts our eschatology. Ecclesiology determines your understanding of the nature of Israel and the church. If they are two different people with two different destinies (dispensationalism), then you tend to embrace a pretribulation rapture. If you believe that we are one spiritual people with a common destiny (although physical Israel does have a national destiny, as well as a spiritual one), then you become open to a post-tribulation rapture. God will force us all to agreement through historical developments.
Alfred (6/29/2014)
from Godwin
“ Great Sermon! ” Everyone has to understand Dr. Stewart's presuppositions. If I am wrong he can correct me, Dr. Stewart is an amillenialist. A pre-trib rapture just doesn't fit their eschatology. Reformers take the Roman Catholic Church's view of eschatology. The reformers i.e. Calvin, Luther change their soteriology, but kept the RCC view of eschatology. I am pre-trib, pre-mil, Calvinist and add some dispensation theology in there. I have no problem reconciling all those positions.
Dan Martin (1/11/2012)
from Honduras
“ Great Sermon! ” I had believed in the pre-trib rapture all my life (I'm 70), until I started studying the end times as though I knew nothing about it. It is amazing how the Word of the Lord speaks when we actually listen to what it says without prejudice. What finally cinched this for me was Rev. 11:15-18: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." The seventh angel's trumpet was the LAST Trumpet. It's great to know there are others who agree!
Robert Cummins (9/26/2011)
from Central KY
“ Faithful Exegesis. ” This message is simply packed full of valuable information for those interested in a study of eschatology. The subject of the "rapture" is presented systematically using faithful exegesis of the scriptures.
Virginia Boudwin (4/9/2011)
from Plymouth, Massachusetts
“ Great Sermon! ” I really enjoyed your message. I too believed for quite some time in the pre-trib rapture of the church because that is what I was taught. However the Lord led me within the past two years to read Marvin Rosenthal's book entitled The Pre- wrath Rapture of the Church. I would encourage you to read it also as it presents a very interesting view that makes much sense. God Bless You and thanks for your message. I will be availing myself of more of your sermons.
Ginny Boudwin
Cathy (2/9/2010)
“ Great Sermon! ” What does one do with the passage that mentions after Jesus raise from the dead "Many of the Saints which slept arose and went into the Holy city and appeared unto many." ?? Could this be a good solid indication that this was the first fruits (Bible talks about Jesus being the 1st fruits - the pre trib rapture would be the "harvest" and the tribulation saints the "gleanings") Hmmmm, something to seriously consider!!
Mitchell (9/15/2009)
from Canada
“ Fantastic Sermon ” Fantastic sermon. He is spot on, and I am 100% convinced that the Bible teaches a post-trib rapture. For someone who commented that he may be supporting "replacement theology", I can tell you that this is in no way supports replacement theology. Judging from everything said in the sermon, he is teaching Progressive Dispensationalism, which I agree with completely. There will be no pre-trib rapture brothers and sisters, and more and more are beginning to seriously study this question and come to the same conclusion. Blessings ...
smokey (6/15/2008)
from Edmonton
“ Great Sermon! ” For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
The event that immediately preceeds the "rapture" is the Resurrection of those that are "dead in Christ." Thus the event that happens FIRST is the ressurection of the dead saints.
Jesus spoke 4 times in the 6th chapter of John, and in John 11 of EXACTLY when that will happen.
John 6:39-40 JN 6:44 Jn 6:54 JN 11:24
Blessings Greg
Robert Wilson (6/10/2007)
“ Great Sermon! ” This sermon was well taught. God began to teach me His way, and it took years for my understanding to be convinced because I am not willing to believe everything I hear. I once believed it but study changed my mind. As Isiah said, "Men in the last days would teach the fear of the Lord after the knowledge of men and not after the wisdom of God. My brothers, a storm is coming.
Jay (3/16/2007)
from Rochester, NY
“ Great Sermon, But... ” Jay comments: (The speaker) attempts to put an end to the on-going debate over the pre-trib/post-trib situation. I personally favor more of the
pre-trib persuasion...It appears to me
that he left some info untouched. [One]thing that kind of disturbed me was the fact that he seemed to support the replacement theory which means that the Church and Israel are the same or that God has left Israel after turning away from God so many times. Dr. Stewart Responds: Thanks, Jay, for listening and for your comments. The discussion over the timing of the rapture will continue until Jesus forces the Church to agreement by the Event itself. I'm trying to encourage this discussion among Bible believers. Regarding Replacement Theology, I reject it categorically. The Dispensational view requires the total disparity between Israel and the Church to make their case for the pretribulation rapture. What I am seeking to demonstrate is that the Apostles saw Gentile Believers as being grafted into spiritual Israel. They also use much of the same terminology in speaking of the Church and Israel. We are two people with a common spiritual heritage and in many regards a common destiny that will take us both through the seven years of Jacob's troubles.
Cole Thomas Westwood (1/16/2007)
from Redford, MI
“ Gracious and Thought Provoking ” A very gracious and careful treatment of a subject that too often generates more heat than light. Regardless of
your persuasion, there is much that is profitable here and worth wrestling with.
mike (9/2/2006)
from NC
“ secret rapture ” I Thes 4:16 does not negate a secret rapture just because of shout and trump of God
John 12:28-29 gives example of a voice from heaven some heard speaking while others heard thunder
other vs used in message would be a picture of Rev 19
Mike (9/2/2006)
from North Carolina
“ Noah ” Several have alluded to Noah going through the flood as picture of Church in the tribulation. Noah is a picture of Isreal going through the tribulation and starting a new kingdom. Enoch was a picture of the church.
Paul Gowdy (8/11/2006)
from Ontario
“ Great Sermon! ” Thank you Dr. Stewart, I have believed in the post trib rapture for many years now, but you cleared much confusion on my understanding of the relationship between Israel and the Church. I personally believe that the church will be on the earth during the time of the wrath but will be protected through it just as Israel was protected during the ten plagues of Egypt. Actually I found that the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of God's Wrath (14 in all) actually amount to 10 distinct judgements as 4 of the 14 judgements overlap or are one and the same! So I think that Israel in Egypt during the 10 plague judgements is a picture of the Church in the World during the time of wrath. 10 seems to be the number of testing in scripture. Thanks again and the Lord bless you as you continue in the Word, sincerely Paul Gowdy.
Janine (8/5/2006)
from Louisiana
“ Great Sermon! ” I've always leaned toward pre and am not sure that is from teaching I received after believing, (certainly was not from my Catholic upbringing as all thing Biblical were brand new to me after my encounter with the Living God in Christ Jesus), or it is my desire?? So I honestly say I am not persuaded yet...at one point a few years ago I read a book by a believing Jewish man who changed his view to Pre wrath..it made a lot of sense when I read it.
Nevertheless, after listening to the sermon a little while ago entitled...Six things the lost know after death....I think I would rather be here for the trib. just for my lost family members to show them this is all God's plan as shown in His Word. I will listen again to this with my Bible and notebook in front of me to learn more. Thanks for the sermon, Janine
Mary (12/27/2005)
from Kent, WA
“ Great Sermon! ” This is a miracle in itself. A pastor preaching something other than pre-trib. I have been shunned by so many of my brothers and sisters for saying that the pretrib rapture is not biblically sound.
It blesses my heart also of the many people that are beginning to read the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to teach them God's Truth. In Deuteronomy 8:3. Moses teaches the Children of Israel that they must live by "every" word that proceeds from the mouth of God. In Matthew 4:4, Jesus tells the same thing to the devil. We must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, that which is told in His Word.
I only have one question that still has not been answered by any pretribber to which I have asked this question. Please tell me the Scripture that says that Jesus will come before the great tribulation.
As a friend told me, If its not in the Word, its not meant to be heard.
Blessings to you Pastor Stewart you will be blessed. Send some of those mighty men of valor to the Northwest.
Dr. Stewart comments: Thanks, Mary, for your kind words. Actually, I had the joy of preaching a revival in Hamilton, WA several years ago. I loved both your state and the wonderful people I met there! Blessings all!
Linda (11/22/2005)
“ 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth ” I started listening to the sermon--got about 1/4 through it--then turned it off and just read my Bible--the scriptures that were referenced in the message. Might come back and listen more--but what I would recommend people do if they question someone's teaching is to be a Biblical Berean--study the scriptures for themselves--
BTW--I am a pre-tribualtionist/pre-millennialist--a born again Jewish believer in Jesus my personal Saviour and Lord.
Also--the Church has not replaced Israel --Israel is still God's "covenant people"--His "earthly" people. The Church is the Bride of Christ, and His "heavenly people". God did not promise an earthly Kingdom to the Church.
Dr. Stewart responds: Thanks, Linda, for your comments. I, too, agree that Israel is God's unique, covenant people. I reject Replacement Theology completely. However, the early Church Fathers (and I believe Jesus and Paul) all seem to expect the Bride of Christ to join Israel in the Great Tribulation. I challenge you to read Mat. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Following Jesus' chronology, the Rapture and ingathering of Believers definitely follows the Great Tribulation. The more we get back to the clear meaning of the words of the New Testament, the more compelling is the Post-Trib position.
Tracie Hall (9/19/2005)
from North Carolina
“ Agreement with George Luechauer ” I agree wholeheartedly with George...I have learned however, that it is best not to argue this point. True christians should be more concerned with abiding in Christ Jesus at this time so that we are producing much fruit and showing Christ to a lost world and an increasingly growing apostate church who is showing the world more and more that the true gospel is not the answer. By living the gospel, Christ will convince other of the truth through us; not through useless debating. It's time we start loving one another. Christ's coming is indeed soon!
George Luechauer (9/16/2005)
from Virginia
“ Interesting, but...! ” This is what happens when one abandons “rightly dividing the word of truth,†in this case failing to understand the dispensational differences between God’s plan for Israel and His plan for the church. The events described in 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 are vastly different from Matthew 24. Why—Jesus was not teaching the rapture, he was addressing the nation of Israel. In Luke 4 Jesus already taught the Jews that God was going to temporarily set aside the nation of Israel and work through a predominately gentile church until it was time to restore Israel and establish the promised earthly Kingdom. Matthew 24 describes how that will happen. Jesus sent Paul to explain the “mystery†of the Church Age including the rapture.
Dr. Stewart responds: Thanks, George, for listening to the message. You have done an excellent job of restating the standard reaction of dispensationalism to the post-tribulation rapture position. I recently read the excellent doctoral dissertation by Professor William Bell in which he compared Matthew 24 and 1 Thess. 4:13-5:11. I was amazed to see Dr. Bell demonstrate that Paul in the "Rapture Passage" actually followed Jesus' chronology of events and subject matter given in Matthew 24! If Dr. Bell is correct, well, I think you can see the implications.
Bernard D Kimmel (8/29/2005)
from Lansing, Michigan
“ Great Sermon! ” When I first became a believer my heart was inclined to a midtrib salvation.I was introduced to a website www.tip.org that has been the explanation I seeked for understanding.
Thank you Dr. Stewart for having the courage to preach against the accepted flow of the organized church.
With all of the actions taken across the world against believers I fail to understand how any preacher can justify preaching of a pretrib rapture.
A pretrib rapture message is a clear slap in the face to our brothers and sisters who have been and are suffering for the cause of Christ.But they would never say so because (I believe) that message is part of the martyrdom they suffer.
May GOD continue to give them strength and the courage to face the trials that the rest of us have (so far) escaped.May HE also prepare our hearts for the time we will.
Timothy (8/19/2005)
from Canberra, Australia
“ Halleluja ” Good to hear Dr Stewart prepared to preach this message. I came to the Lord 7 years ago so much of the teaching I hear is from a pre trib rapture perspective. As entertaining as this "left behind" view is I have allready come to the conclusion that pre trib rapture is a cop out teaching.
Surely anyone who is eager to understand our God and His ways will know that trials and tribulations are part of the Christian walk.
You can analyse the texts and the meanings and study it til your blue in the face but I believe God will impart understanding to your spirit on this issue.
Why for 2 thousand years faithfull saints of God have suffered at the hands of men, why now in this generation of Christianity are we to be delivered from trial.
God is into the salvation of souls and this tribulation period offers perhaps the greatest opportunity for evangelization that the world will ever know. I expect to be there right up until the "day of wrath". This day we will not endure as God has not appointed us to wrath.
Amen to this message, may there be more.
dean (8/19/2005)
from oklahoma city
“ Great Sermon! ” thank you, Dr. Stewart. I have been pre-trib taught all my church life(34years). Only after I genuinely accepted Christ's finished work by the Grace of God have I truly read the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit to illumuine God's word. I also have come to the conclusion that all of the twisted explanations and complicated timelines are totally and completely uncalled for if one reads the Scripture without one's pre-trib lenses on. I am still a Baptist for the missions focus but I find it difficult to bite my tongue when 99% plus of my Sunday School members will not even take a cursory look with an open mind at what the Word of God truly says comcerning the Second Coming of Christ. It never ceases to amaze me why people are so afraid of what the Bible clearly shows instead of what Tim Lahaye and the like sell. I just do not understand the division of the Body of Christ that is so clearly anti-biblical. This point alone made me doubt the Darbyism in the chruch. That led me to look at the second coming and I clearly see only 1 return with 1 judgement with the unredeemed being the first to be judged(Matt. 13). It would seem to me that to let the Scriptures speak to the subject versus the charts of man. I am so thankful for Christ and hate to see such division of Him.
Tim (8/15/2005)
from Maine
“ Great Sermon! ” Thank you Dr. Stewart for addressing this topic. (Especially from this viewpoint, it is rare!)
My Pastor and I often talk quietly about this topic... both feeling the tribulation will probably be mid or post trib. But most do not feel this way. I am very much looking forward to hearing what your study of the scriptures has revealed to you!
Thanks again... and God Bless!
Sam (8/13/2005)
from Florida
“ The Olive Tree is Christ! ” Sam comments: The speaker says that one of the big factors that leads dispensationalists to believe in a pre-trib rapture is that they separate Israel from the church...he then goes on to say that...we, the church, are grafted into the tree, which is Abraham, or Israel. Sir, please re-read the chapter. It never says we are grafted into Israel... I'm sorry, but I don't want to be grafted into Israel, I want to be grafted into CHRIST... Dr. Stewart responds: The Olive tree is an OT symbol for Abraham and his offspring. Jesus is the Vine. Regarding Romans 11, John MacArthur writes, "Root-the Partiarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...the Olive Tree-the place of divine blessing; God's covenant of salvation made with Abraham." (his Study Bible). Note that he did not say "Christ is the Olive or Christ is the root." F.F. Bruce: "The olive is Israel, the people of God" (Tyndale N.T.Commentary). Robert Haldane: "The Jewish nation was God's olive tree...whose root Abraham was..." (Commentary). Sandy & Headlam: "The root or stock = the Patriarchs for whose faith originally Israel was chosen" (ICC). John Murry: "Gentiles are reminded that they draw all the grace they enjoy from the tree whose root is Israel's patriarchs" (NIC). I hope you'll listen to rest of this message sometime, Sam.
Darrell Hurley (8/12/2005)
from NC
“ Great Sermon! ” I was once a Pre-tribber until a mentor of mine showed me some books and told me to research it for myself. I did and am now convinced that the rapture will be "Prewrath" instead of the other views. Check out Marvin Rosenthal's Book, " The Prewrath Rapture of the Church," or Robert Van Kampen's books on the rapture. Dr. Stewart adds: Thanks, Darrell, for being open to a different perspective on the rapture. The excellent book by Robert Van Kampen is entitled, "The Sign" (Crossway Books). Don't forget Robert Gundry's scholarly book on the posttribulation rapture, "The Church and the Tribulation" (Zondervan). Many Dallas Theological Seminary students, I have been told, have found Dr. Gundry's book particular convincing. By the way, Marvin Rosenthal's book is published by Thomas Nelson. All three books are available in paperback now and can be purchased at Amazon.com or from your favorite online bookseller. Pre-tribbers would do especially well to have Gundry's book in their personal library. No one should ever fear discovering the Truth of God's Word, whatever that Truth might pertain to. I am delighted that finally scholars and Bible students are discussing all three of the rapture positions, not just the Pre-Trib position.
William Conley (8/12/2005)
from Baltimore, MD
“ ???????????? ” We are told to live for Christ every day. If we do that we don't have to worry when the rapture takes place. So what if we have to go through it. Didn't Christ promise to take care of us. I sincerely believe that he will be with us through anything that the devil will put us through. Noah went through the flood with no problems, Lot and his family were pulled out of Sodom & Gomorrah and we will be protected through the tribulation if we are still here.
faarke (8/12/2005)
from Belgium
“ Bro. Carter ” Bro. Carter.
We christians are not justified by the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ. If we really love Jesus christ and want ( will is extremely important) to follow Him, we will leave this world and it's desires behind us. If we are truly followers of Him, we CAN'T put ourselves to such a choice. If we love Him, we cannot take a sabbatical. Communion with Him makes us to turn from our wicked ways.
Ps: what if something happened to you before the rapture ?
RosaMarie (8/12/2005)
“ Great Sermon! ” I am beginning to lean towards a post-tribulation Rapture myself. When the Lord returns, it will be as in the days of Noah. I understand that to mean that not only will sin be rampant as it was in Noah's day, but there will be as few believers as in Noah's day. The Great Tribulation will see the slaughter of Christians and will divide the wheat from the tares.
Leon (8/12/2005)
from Atlanta
“ Haven't listened yet ” I haven't yet listened to this sermon but I wanted to ask one question of the people who believe in a pre-trib rapture:
What if you are wrong?
I am preparing for the worst (going through the tribulation) but hoping for the best (I want the rapture to happen before the tribulation, but I cannot see it happening from a scriptural point of view).
faarke (8/12/2005)
from Belgium
“ Here I am again ” Dear Mr. Stewart.
I mentioned that you never really answered my questions, neither invalidated them, but each time you pointed towards other arguments.
Dr. Stewart responds: My friend, on the contrary, I have appealed to the Biblical context and the historical context to demonstrate that the post-trib rapture is not inconsistent with Jesus' statement of Mat. 24:32-51.
Faarke continues: Jesus says that his coming will be as in the days of Noah: people continue on living thear lives as if there's no threat ( they eat, drink, marry...) This doesn't really fit the image of the anti-christ reign over the earth, tribulation, plagues, persecution...
Dr. Stewart responds: Peter tells us that Noah preached righteousness and warned his neighbors of the impending judgment(2 Pet. 2:5), but they refused to take him seriously. These people should have known the season of judgment had arrived because the ark was finally finished, and the animals were coming in! What they did not know was the specific day or hour the rains would begin. We, too, are to note the signs of the times. Can we agree that Noah actually went through the flood? The ark is an excellent picture, therefore, of God's faithful provision for getting His people safely through the tribulation.
Bless you!
Bro. Carter (8/12/2005)
from Los Angeles, CA
“ Great Sermon! ” Brother Carter writes: My personal opinion is this. If there is no pre-tribulation rapture, and I as a dedicated Christian am forced to endure the tribulation, why am I serving God right now? Why don't I take a sabbatical and throw my lot in with the world and enjoy all Satan has to offer? Then during the tribulation end my sabbatical and get back in line? That would be a waste if I must endure the tribulation.
Brother Stewart responds: To all dedicated Christians Titus 2:11-15 says, "For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in this present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you." And to any who might desire a sabbatical from righteousness during life's tough times, Jesus says, "I know your tribulation and your poverty...do not fear what you are about to suffer...be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life" (Rev.2:8-11). Amen.
faarke (8/11/2005)
from Belgium
“ Dear Brothers ” Mr. Stewart...In the old testament Daniël gives a detailled outline of what will happen in the end of times, but he also says exactly how long this will be and gives the exact number of days. So if there would be a post-tribulation rapture, we would know exactly on which day Jesus would come back... Dr. Stewart responds: Interesting, isn't it, Faarke, that Daniel predicted the exact season of Messiah's first coming and His second, yet Jesus said that no man knows the day or the hour of His return. The feasts of Israel also are prophetic, indicating the season of Jesus' first coming and His second. Jesus fulfilled in His first coming the feasts of Passover, Unleaven Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost-all on exactly the day appointed by God. It makes sense that He will fulfill the Fall feasts in His return, doesn't it? It is likely that our Lord will rapture the church at the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanna). Interestingly, knowing the season, "no man ever knows the exact day or hour" this holiday will begin each year (when the new moon will be visually spotted), so the Jews traditionally have marked two days on their calendars for the Feast of Trumpets. Understanding Jewish culture helps us here to understand both Jesus' words and the writings of the prophets. Both are true.
Larry Dalton (8/11/2005)
from South Africa
“ Great Sermon! ” A Note to Faarke:
Eschatology is a very intricate topic and must be grounded on sound Hermeneutics. I firstly appreciate your enthusiasm, but research the strong views held by scholars before closing the door on a post-tribulation return of our Lord.
I suggest Anthony Hoekema: The Bible and the Future (A good Biblical, honest dealing with the 4 major views. A-Millennial) or Boettner: Postmillennialism.
I hope that this helps....
Your Servant in Christ
LD
Faarke (8/10/2005)
from Belgium
“ How can Matthew 24:33-51 be Post-Trib? ” Dr. Stewart appreciates Faarke's question. Faarke says: I've always thought that Jesus will take his bride away before the tribulation. Now I heard about Stewart's sermon, I had some doubts. I brought this to the Lord (and know that He hears my every word), and immediately I read Matt.24: 40-42. Please Read This and don't forget these are the words of our Saviour Jesus Christ ! If you read verses 34-51, you'll see that this is impossible if the rapture was post-tribulation. Dr. Stewart responds: Several things should be said in response to my Brother's comments. First, we must not separate verses 34-51 from their context of verses 1-33 in which our Lord sets forth the chronology of events leading up to His glorious Return. This chronology appears to establish the Abomination of Desolation (15), the time of tribulation (16-22), then the Sign of His Coming (27-30), and then the Rapture of the Church (31). Jesus warns His followers to be keenly aware of the signs of the times and to be prepared for His Coming (32,33). Verses 33-51 can only be properly understood in this larger context. Second, apparently those early church fathers who openly embraced a post-tribulation rapture did not believe their position to be inconsistent with Jesus' words recorded in Matthew 24:33-51.
Patti Ryan (8/5/2005)
from Nicholson, GA
“ Great Sermon! ” It came as no surprise to me when I saw the title of Dr. Stewart's message. I first heard his fascinating, informative sermons on the end times and pre-trib rapture when I was an unsaved teenager more than twenty years ago. Although unsaved, I was very interested in what he had to say on this subject. I even got the tapes, which probably shocked my parents as I was an extremely wild and rebellious daughter. Only a short five years ago, I finally met my Savior and began to know Him instead of just about Him. As I studied, I, too, came to the conclusion that the pre-trib story was wrong and I was disturbed to find that there seemed to be very few pastors who had grasped this truth and even fewer who were willing to preach it. When my father told me that Dr. Stewart's sermons were available on-line, I couldn't get to my computer fast enough to see what he had to say about the rapture, after all these years. I knew I wouldn't be disappointed and I wasn't. I can't thank you enough, Dr. Stewart, for your genuineness, your integrity and your commitment to telling the truth about what God's Word reveals. I'll never forget your kindness to me during those hard years. Thank you so much... Dr. Stewart responds: Thank you, Patti (Parks) Ryan for your many gracious and kind words!
Mary (6/6/2005)
from Kansas
“ Great Sermon! ” Why, pray tell, would the Lord spare this generation of weak kneed Christians from persecution when thousands of the faithful thorough out history suffered as martyrs, unspeakably horrible deaths (read Fox's Book of Martyrs).
It is eternal damnation the redeemed will be saved from, not earthly discomfort!
If our witness is true and faithful, we will suffer. We ought to consider it an honor to suffer for the sake of Christ and His Kingdom.
plw (5/10/2005)
from Mo
“ Great Sermon! ” I am in full agreement with Pastor Stewart. We have studied this pre-, mid-, post-, for 5 years now and we USED to be pre-trib. We found out the same thing he did. Too many holes in the teaching. Bravo, Dr. Stewart, from some friends who have emailed you a couple of times from Missouri. The geese are still on the lake!!! Please do a follow-up message on this subject. We will be watching for it. God bless you. plw
Derek (5/10/2005)
from Oklahoma City
“ Great Sermon! ” Derek writes: Good point about the Children of Israel and Egypt...To answer your question, the two examples of God removing his people were Lot...and Noah with his family. In addition, I have for many years been pointed to the fact that after Revelation chapter 4, the church is no longer mentioned until after the tribulation is over. And again, what about the 144,000 that will be preaching?...I believe it is clear that the church will be gone and Israel after the flesh will be again presented the Gospel by their own kinsmen...Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the subject, this gives us the ability to sharpen our thoughts...God Bless.
Dr. Stewart responds: Several thoughts come to mind, Derek. First, only seven individual churches are singled out by the Savior in the Book of Revelation. To say that the Church is absent (raptured) because no specific "church" is referred to after Revelation 3 is to argue from silence and to insist on a rather narrow definition of the Church that excludes it from being present during the Great Tribulation. While Lot was in fact delivered prior to the judgment, Noah was actually delivered through the divine judgment by the gracious provision of God (the ark). Noah could be viewed (and is) as an "example" of the Posttrib principle.
Discerned Believer (5/6/2005)
“ Great Sermon! ” Dr. Stewart appreciates the following comments: Great points Derek...The 7 year tribulation period referred to is God's wrath upon the world, not the persecution of the church by the world and Satan. Who would venture to think that God would pour out His divine wrath on the bride that He redeemed and purchased with the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
Dr. Stewart responds: Humm? A closer observation of the Scriptures suggests that it is only the last 3.5 years of Jacob's Troubles that involve the "great tribulation" referred to by Jesus in Mat. 24:15-21. The wrath of this period is from two sources and is directed at different objects. First, there is the wrath of God which is directed against the unbelievers (Rev. 6:15-17, 14:9-10, 15:1, 16:19, 19:15), initially for the purpose of bringing unbelievers to repentance (Rev.9:20-21, 16:9-11). Second, there is the wrath of Satan with is directed at faithful Jews and Believing Christians (Rev. 6:9-11,12:11-13), apparently in Satan's attempt to destroy both Israel and the Church. The note of victory is struck in favor of the saints when John states, "And they overcame him (Satan) because of the Blood of the Lamb and because of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death" (Rev. 12:11). Does this help?
Derek (5/6/2005)
from Oklahoma City
“ Believers through Judgement?? ” Dr. Stewart welcomes Derek's comments: The comment was made that the Church will go through the tribulation...But please consider the nature of God, who NEVER CHANGES. When God's judgement ( not the tribulation that man brings upon believers) falls upon His creation, he has always removed HIS CHILDREN. How on earth can we leap across this chasm and say that this time, God's going to leave them to suffer...Just some thoughts. God Bless.
Dr. Stewart responds: Thanks, Derek. Pretribbers and Posttribbers agree that the Bride will not be the object of the divine wrath during the last days. I would point out that the Children of Israel were in the Land of Egypt during the catastrophic judgments which befell the Kingdom. Yet, God protected His people from the devastations of these judgments. Historically, it appears that the righteous (like Daniel and Jeremiah) suffered with the unrighteous, but were sustained and protected throughout. It would be very, very helpful, my friend, if you would share with us some examples of God's removing His people prior to the falling of His judgments on the earth. Thanks for your imput!
Victoria Broatch (4/17/2005)
“ Great Sermon! ” After eleven years of believing in a Pretrib Rapture, I finally let the Word of God speak clearly to me and I discovered I was mistaken. There is only one "Second Coming." I agree fully with your conclusions.
One thing to consider: In this time of apostasy, we must be able to differentiate between the essentials of the faith and the errors of eschatological misinterpretation. Pretrib's have sometimes elevated this doctrine to "essential" status and thereby alienated true brothers and sisters in the Lord. When I did believe Pretrib for those eleven years, I have no doubt I was saved, but my error came as a result of neglecting to study this doctrine fully on my own. I had simply accepted what I had been taught on the pulpit and bible studies with little investigation of my own. I also might add that I am an avid bible student and this one simply "slipped by me."
God bless you Pastor, stand firm - God's truth must always come before man's imaginations. May our "Blessed Hope" be Christ Himself and His salvation. It is certainly not a small group of "end-time Christians" being taken out of persecution that every believer of all ages has been promised.
Clint Thornton (3/18/2005)
from West Monroe, Louisiana
“ Great Sermon! ” I greatly appreciated your sermon. Several years ago I came to the same conclusion. Just a word study of the same Greek word translated "tribulation" and "affliction" in the New Testament reveals the fact that with one exception the tribulation is for God's people and not the other way around. The problem is the confusion that so many have with the "wrath of God". God has always used tribulation to prepare "saints". And though there is room for controversy in the prototypes, they too point to "going through" and being "preserved in" tribulation, and not a grand escape. The sad irony is that many who expect to escape will be a part of the great apostasy because of being disallusioned. Thanks so much for the research.
Justin Demeere (3/15/2005)
“ I have studied and found Pre-Trib more likely. ” (Dr. Stewart welcomes the following listener's comments) "I fought with myself for a while now with the notion of Pre-Trib or Post. I have come to the conclusion that it must be Pre-Trib and no other explanation.
I have come across a very good site to explain the same thing I found. I hope this will be good information for anybody searching like I was.
http://www.raptureread y.us."
Dr. Stewart responds: Thanks Justin for your contribution to the discussion. I look forward to looking into the website you referenced. I encourage you to read the excellent post-trib books by Gundry and Van Kampen (referenced in comments below)to add to your understanding of the issues involved. We must all be open to new insights and information.
David George (2/28/2005)
“ Great Sermon! ” Good sermon. Could be better if you went one step further and went preterist. Keep studying....
don clenney (2/26/2005)
from ar.
“ Great Sermon! ” Mt. 13 says we are here(wheat /tares)till the end.Also, read Rapture of the church by Jim McKeever. There is only 1 2nd coming.I agree with your teaching.GOD bless you.
malcolm Harris (2/23/2005)
from Cape Town South Africa
“ Great Sermon! ” Pre-Trib verses Post-Trib Rapture
I was amazed and encouraged by Dr Stewart’s message on this topic, as I went through the same process as he did, of being brought up on hyper-dispensationism and the Pre-trib Rapture and then reading Matthew 24 with an open mind and I came to the very same conclusions as he presents in this message. As he so rightly says, the key issue is ones definition and understanding of what is meant by the ‘church’.
This is such a vital subject…….. it has an important bearing on our understanding of prophecy and the events leading up to the second coming of Jesus.
J N Darby (one of the founders of the ‘Brethren’ movement) was a very gifted teacher of Scripture in the 1830’s and his teaching has influenced a lot of what we believe today, (a lot of it – very good !) however his definition of the ‘church’ and the pre-trib rapture were brand new concepts at the time and no record in church history agrees with him on those issues. (nor does Scripture IMHO)
This is what we are grappling with here….. not what Scripture teaches, but what Darby taught.
Thank you brother for your honesty and faithfulness to the Word of God!
Richard A. Hill (2/20/2005)
from Houston, TX
“ Great Sermon! ” I am a student of biblical languages completing my M. Div. and I have been dissatisfied with the pre-trib position for some time now. I have had to put my eschatology on hold as I do not have the time to do the necessary research due to school. I will say that this sermon has opened my eyes to much that I did not see before. The fact that the Church goes through the Great Tribulation does fit with the OT record better. When did God ever take His people out of trouble?...Egypt?...the Wilderness?...the relentless attacks from foreign nations?...the eventual dispersion of the Jews from their homeland? God took them through and preserved them in it. The Greek of Rev 3.10 is correct, God will guard us IN the midst of the trouble, not FROM(in the sense of never having to suffer).
In the Jewish mindset, suffering is a part of what makes us human, and to deny ourselves that is to deny ourselves full humanity. A book which covers this need to suffer excellently is "Psalms: A Theological Commentary" by Walter Brueggemann.
Ben Yatar (2/12/2005)
from Philippines
“ Great Sermon! ” Dr. Stewart is right in abandoning Pre-Trib like I did several years ago. After reading Steve Wohlberg's books, my belief in Pre-Trib crumbled.
Bonnie (2/11/2005)
from KY
“ Great Sermon! ” (Dr. Stewart welcomes the following listener's comments)"I thought I had a clear understanding of our "Blessed Hope." I heard a teaching suggesting that the Body of Christ would, indeed, go through the tribulation. It absolutely broke my heart. Not that I was seeking comfort by wanting to avoid the tribulation, but I so longed to see Him, that my hopes were crushed in this life....I absolutely KNOW that the Church (our Lord Jesus Christ's Body) be removed BEFORE the seven year tribulation period begins."
Dr. Stewart comments: Thanks Bonnie for your thoughts. Various sectors of the Church have suffered great persecution in every generation since the first and have been purified, not destroyed, by their hardships because of the faithfulness and grace of the Lord Jesus! Most PostTribs believe that before entering the last 3.5 years there will be a great outpouring of the Spirit (Joel 2:28-32) which will be more than adequate to prepare, sustain, and lead God's people in victory whatever may come our way (Rev. 12:11). Remember: "Greater is He Who is in you, than he who is in the world". Jesus' followers need have no fear, and never be broken hearted, over His perfect and loving will for us, even when pain is involved. Grace to you, my dear.
Vincent (2/10/2005)
from Memphis
“ Way Off Base ” (Dr. Stewart has posted the following listener's comment) "Way off Base! This is way off base and he takes a lot out of context...the Pretribulation rapture is the only way to look at it as God does!...Going to the "Greek" is a farce and there is no such thing as a "Septuagint" that was proven to be written before the time of Christ!...This stinks and so does the preacher!"
Dr. Stewart responds: Vincent, it looks like I need to invite you out for a cup of coffee! I believe that Dr. Dwight Pentecost (Things to Come) would disagree with you on your issues with the "Greek" and Dr. Merrill Unger (Unger's New Bible Dictionary) would disagree on the existence and importance of the Septuagint in the life of the early church. I have always believed that the rapture issue is a disagreement within the family of faith and that we should discuss these issues with Christ-like grace. Just between you and me: I can hope that your rapture position is somehow correct; I just don't see it in the Word. I guess the Lord will have to resolve this issue with His glorious Appearing. People must be made aware of all the possibilites so they can make whatever preparations necessary to remain faithful to our Lord whenever He comes. Grace and peace to you, Brother!
David (2/10/2005)
from Newville, PA
“ Pre-Trib No Mistake! ” (Dr. Stewart is glad to post the following listener comment) "There has been much evidence overlooked on the Pre-Trib side...Dr. Thomas Ice displays an ancient sermon, Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627) that he found...You can go to Dr. Snow's prophecy website and examine these sermons (www.raptureready.com/featured /ttcol.html). I would encourage everyone to test and prove all these things like the Holy Writ commands us to do."
Dr. Stewart comments: Thanks David for your input into this discussion. I encourage every interested person to visit the website above and test all things. I would also suggest listeners read Robert H. Gundry's exceptional book: The Church and The Tribulation (Zondervan) and visit The Last Trumpet website at http://www.geocities.com/~last trumpet/ where legitimate questions are raised concerning the Pseudo-Ephraem document and its actual authenticity. Ephraem's genuine writings in the Ante-Nicean Fathers nowhere seems to hint at a pretrib rapture. Curious, isn't it? How else will we come to agreement on the Truth of God's Word unless we all come to the table and discuss these relevant data? Thanks, Friend.
Alex (2/10/2005)
“ Still Not Accurate Enough ” (Dr. Stewart appreciates and has posted the following listener comment) "Stewart's sermon is a good one in that he acknowledges the horrific problems of the Pre-Trib position...But he still has not dug deeply enough... He "assumes" that the Great Tribulation is the "entire" last 3.5 year period, which is not stated in Scripture...So "Pre-trib" is not accurate, "Post-Trib" is not accurate, "Mid-Trib" is not accurate. The most accurate term is "Pre-Wrath"...before the wrath of God begins...He needs to study this topic more carefully, but he is on the right road..."
Dr. Stewart Responds: Thanks Alex. I actually agree with you that the rapture is prior to the revelation of the wrath of God. I would refer listeners to Van Kampen's excellent work: The Sign (Crossway Books); and to Marvin Rosenthal's work: The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church (Nelson).
Peter (2/9/2005)
“ Great Sermon! ” It's good to know that men are still humble enough to admit when they are wrong. Thank you! May the Lord bless your ministry!
Ben Lev (2/4/2005)
from Melbourne, Australia
“ Great Sermon! ” Thank you for your honest discourse and the time spent on this subject.All the more reason to stay close to our Lord & Saviour. In any case no prophet was ever saved from what he prophesied but went through it all with the poeple.
I trust that the Lord's prayer to deliver us from evil will always apply.
Growing up in the rolling hills of northeast Georgia, Charles graduated from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, IL (M.Div. '74) and the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary (D.Min. '81). He has pastored three churches in Georgia and Texas during his...
