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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/6/2020
WEDNESDAY, APR 22, 2020  |  34 comments
Federal judges find that majority of government bans on church services are constitutional
During the coronavirus shutdown, not all religious liberty cases are created equal.

In the past few weeks, a flurry of churches filed lawsuits against state and local governments, alleging that bans on services are unconstitutional. Others argued that while the bans themselves are constitutional, additional strictures prohibiting drive-in services are not.

Federal judges delivered decisions on several of these cases last week, finding that the majority of the cases made by religious liberty advocates do not rise to the level of unconstitutionality.

A judge in New Mexico on Friday threw out a case brought by Legacy Church in Albuquerque, where the church disputed Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham’s order that no church may gather with more than five people. Legacy said that it had been overburdened by the limitation because it required more than five people to organize a service. Furthermore, church ...


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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 34 user comment(s)
News Item4/25/2020 1:28 AM
Dr. Tim | Way Down Yonder  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
“...But every fool will be meddling.”
34

News Item4/24/2020 6:19 AM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
B. McCausland wrote:
Some Americans treat their constitution as if were the Bible itself.
Thank you sister BMacCausland, a statement with which we both agree. It would be a terrible mistake on one’s part to think that the U.S. legal system as expressed in the Constitution has equal footing with the Holy Word of God.

Just wondering, in this thread was there a specific comment that raised this red flag for you and caused you to share your concern or were you words just a generic warning of something that needs to be avoided at all cost?

Thanks for your response

33

News Item4/23/2020 9:38 PM
The Quiet Christian  Find all comments by The Quiet Christian
Me too, Mike.
32

News Item4/23/2020 7:26 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
The Quiet Christian wrote:
---
Keeping people alive is a noble, albeit rather unusual, goal for many liberal politicians. What is and is not essential is where the rubber meets the road. And while my family & I, all of us having underlying health conditions that would make this virus particularly concerning, the congregating in a safe manner before the Lord is essentially essential.
QC, I sure wish I could believe liberals actually cared about keeping people alive, more than they care about keeping all the unnecessary fear alive. Unfortunately, too many of the restrictions have no medical basis at all. If this was truly a medical emergency, then non-medically needed restrictions have another purpose.
31

News Item4/23/2020 5:07 PM
The Quiet Christian  Find all comments by The Quiet Christian
That's a good point, Brother John. But there is a fairness and civil rights issue. If Christians cannot gather while following health guidance (in the US, the CDC), will those who follow Allah be permitted to gather as they desire?

Keeping people alive is a noble, albeit rather unusual, goal for many liberal politicians. What is and is not essential is where the rubber meets the road. And while my family & I, all of us having underlying health conditions that would make this virus particularly concerning, the congregating in a safe manner before the Lord is essentially essential.

30

News Item4/23/2020 2:51 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
I can't say I have much interest in mosques, John.
Me neither Mike. But at least we will be able to see the death rate of Christians who are locked down and cannot attend their places of worship, and the death rate of Muslims who in many countries are permitted to attend their Mosques and engage in close proximity prayer. If only to show either that lockdown works or it doesn't.
29

News Item4/23/2020 9:56 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Okay Mike, so shall we keep an eye on these mosques? Check the number of any actual deaths? And observe whether or not they change their stance on not quarantining?
I can't say I have much interest in mosques, John. But it does bring to mind a little something. Mayor deBlahsio of NYC has threatened to close *permanently* churches and synagogues that don't toe the lockdown line. Of mosques, he said nothing. Thinking about him brings this to mind- He has closed gyms to the people, but he goes to a gym. At least he is a consistent hypocrite. I'm so glad they are worried about our health.
28

News Item4/22/2020 11:29 PM
Wayfarer pilgrim | Lubbock, Texas  Find all comments by Wayfarer pilgrim
Yes, I’m afraid we will have too many losers in the economic reboot. And that is why elections are incredibly important.
If a Biden/ Abrams ticket wins- the good nature of citizens afraid of dying of Covid, abiding to hide in place, while we are made pawns will eventually become Venezuela. The citizens of our nation will be forced as beggars in their own nation while the world waits on the white smoke welcoming a Stacey “pick me and you’ll be sorry” Abrams is deemed beloved leader.
Vote DJT 2020.
27

News Item4/22/2020 6:44 PM
The Quiet Christian  Find all comments by The Quiet Christian
The death rate itself was based on false Chinese numbers and then assumes that those tested are the only ones infected to divide the number of deaths by the number of "cases."

Indeed, where is that Pearl Harbor or 9/11 moment or week? Those models really set us up, didn't they?

The thing we don't know is what would have happened without the quarantine. We didn't experience that.

The Constitution of the United States makes the federal government to be of the people, by the people, and for the people. Most states, I believe, follow that model as well. While our highest Constitution is God's holy and inspired word, we Americans are part and parcel of the process of governing this republic. And when the government at whatever level begins to restrict those rights that were codified in the 1790s, at some point, someone is going to have to defend those decisions if the rule of law is to be upheld.

I agree with Joel Belz' recent essay which states we are not going back to pre-COVID but a socialized, planned economy on a couple of levels.

26

News Item4/22/2020 2:57 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
John, I will risk a prediction.
The entire premise of the need for shutdown of living is the death rate assumed of this virus. The death rate was established by faulty computer models, which change almost daily. It is still faulty because it has been based on the numbers of deaths compared to the numbers of tested positives. It has not included the recovered, nor those who had it without or with minimal symptoms. When testing for antibodies is done, we're going to find huge numbers of people have had covid19, many without knowing it. And we'll find the actual death rate to be much lower than we are being told. Some don't want this to happen.
Side note without comment. As of April 14, the CDC started including "probable" deaths due to covid19 in their count. Probables are not lab confirmed. But it does make what is being called the death rate go up.
Okay Mike, so shall we keep an eye on these mosques? Check the number of any actual deaths? And observe whether or not they change their stance on not quarantining?
25

News Item4/22/2020 2:22 PM
TrueHolyBibleChristianCatholic  Find all comments by TrueHolyBibleChristianCatholic
LOOK SAINTS: FROM THE GET-GO I'VE CRIED ALOUD, SPARED NOT & PROCLAIMED THE FACT THAT WE--THE HEALTHY/WELL/
SANE/SOUND PEOPLE--SHOULD BE OUT & ABOUT DOING OUR BUSINESS & NOT QUARANTINED/IMPRISONED/CAGED BY POLITICIANS &-OR STATE-[EN]FORCED "MARTIAL-LAW"; WHEN NO-IMMINENT/PRESENT-EVIL-DANGER IS AT HAND OR THREATENING AMERICA'S GENERAL WELFARE, LIFE, LIBERTY, PROPERTY & THEIR PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS: AS THIS SO-CALLED "LOCK-DOWN" HAS
ENGENDERED !

GOD'S-/-JESUS-CHRIST'S COMMAND IS CLEAR:

"NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER, AS THE MANNER OF SOME IS; BUT EXHORTING ONE ANOTHER: AND SO MUCH THE MORE, AS YE SEE THE DAY
APPROACHING."-HEBREWS 10:25

THE ABOVE HOLY-WRIT SPEAKS OF LOCAL TRUE HOLY BIBLE CHRISTIAN ASSEMBLIES/CONGREGATIONS/CHURCHES; UNTIL, THAT ETERNAL GATHERING "TO THE GENERAL (UNIVERSAL/
TOTAL/CATHOLIC) ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN (JESUS CHRIST), WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN, AND TO GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL, AND TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT,

AND TO JESUS THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD OF SPRINKLING, THAT SPEAKETH BETTER THINGS THAN THAT OF ABEL (OR MOSES OR BULLS/GOATS/
SHEEP)."-HEBREWS 12:23-24

*OR* THAT SPEAKETH BETTER THINGS THAN THAT OF THE SATANIC~VATICAN'S MASS & THEIR LATE-400s-AD CREATED
"ISLAM" ! ! !

24

News Item4/22/2020 2:16 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Mike, you will have the opportunity to compare notes in a few weeks. Apparently the Muslim position in many countries is not to quarantine themselves and their mosques will be open for business as usual, which means that the faithful will be attending as normal.
John, I will risk a prediction.

The entire premise of the need for shutdown of living is the death rate assumed of this virus. The death rate was established by faulty computer models, which change almost daily. It is still faulty because it has been based on the numbers of deaths compared to the numbers of tested positives. It has not included the recovered, nor those who had it without or with minimal symptoms. When testing for antibodies is done, we're going to find huge numbers of people have had covid19, many without knowing it. And we'll find the actual death rate to be much lower than we are being told. Some don't want this to happen.

Side note without comment. As of April 14, the CDC started including "probable" deaths due to covid19 in their count. Probables are not lab confirmed. But it does make what is being called the death rate go up.

23

News Item4/22/2020 2:13 PM
Adriel  Find all comments by Adriel
1Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God."
22

News Item4/22/2020 1:32 PM
CES  Find all comments by CES
In God’s Word only the diseased were quarantined, outside the camp, not the general population.🤷🏻‍♂️
Leviticus 13 and 14.
21

News Item4/22/2020 1:05 PM
Nick | USA  Find all comments by Nick
B. McCausland writes:
Nick wrote:
1. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land here in the United States. What is to be done when someone in governmental position breaks the law?

2. Eric from NC wote
The Bible says that we should honor God first. He should take precedence over man's judgement. It says, If possible, live peaceably with all men. It's not peaceable to shut down churches. It says, Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. This is what the Bible says. The judges are wrong.
Some Americans treat their constitution as if were the Bible itself.

As good as it is to have legal guarantees in place for freedom of speech, association and worship, as included in the text of the American constitution they work as guidelines.

If emergencies suggest *temporal* adjustment for the sake of the immediate good of the country and fellow citizens, it is not a matter of breaking the law, or being unconstitutional, but of being sensible, and honouring temporal measures or instructions.

When *'Congress'* makes permanent laws contradicting bible truth that will be the time to sound the alarm.

See the text,
" *Congress shall make no law* respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."

Actually, Eric from NC is actua

20

News Item4/22/2020 12:50 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Nick wrote:
1. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land here in the United States. What is to be done when someone in governmental position breaks the law?

2. Eric from NC wote
The Bible says that we should honor God first. He should take precedence over man's judgement. It says, If possible, live peaceably with all men. It's not peaceable to shut down churches. It says, Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. This is what the Bible says. The judges are wrong.

Some Americans treat their constitution as if were the Bible itself.

As good as it is to have legal guarantees in place for freedom of speech, association and worship as included in the text of the American constitution, such work as 'guidelines'.

If emergencies suggest *temporal* adjustment for the sake of the immediate good of the country and fellow citizens, it is not a matter of breaking the law, or being unconstitutional, but of being sensible, and honouring temporal measures or instructions.

When *'Congress'* makes permanent laws contradicting bible truth, that will be the time to sound the alarm.

See the text,
" *Congress shall make no law* respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."

19

News Item4/22/2020 12:36 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
This is a very interesting and dividing issue. To me it is like the exercise of freedom of speech. Yes we have that constitutional right, but, it is illegal to yell fire in a movie theatre. So, the constitution gives a right, but puts restraints on it.

Now if someone wants to publicly worship as is also a constitutional right, what happens if doing that would result in the deaths of those outside of that worship group. IOW, would that be similar to yelling fire in the movie theatre?

I have also seen the police ticketing folks worshipping from their cars. Where is the logic in that?

I personally am a supporter of house churches. Perhaps that would solve all these temporary issues?

I do not believe that someone has to gather in a formal building to worship our Lord and Savior.

I have lots of questions, but no answers.

18

News Item4/22/2020 12:33 PM
Nick | USA  Find all comments by Nick
Another question that I have:
A couple of weeks ago, didn't the surgeon general say that the following week was going to be our 911 and our Pearl harbor? That seems like quite a quite a comparison at the time. But nothing was really all that different from the previous weeks. Something about the information that is being fed to the general public seems drastically wrong.
17

News Item4/22/2020 12:26 PM
Nick | USA  Find all comments by Nick
A new study done by Stanford University reveals that the death rate of those who have tested positive to the coronavirus is comparable to the average death rate of those who contract the flu. Looking at the actual data that we have rather than the estimates that were given earlier, I guess I just don't understand why this is being treated so differently.
16

News Item4/22/2020 12:13 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Well, Tony, unless you've been sitting in your house, have you taken a test to show that you don't have the virus? Many people asymptomatic, but still spread the disease. You have to really look at Frontline.

https://tinyurl.com/yagjyph5

15
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