DJC49 wrote:
There should be no takers to your challenge because there simply isn't any Scripture which ACTUALLY states that THE Antichrist will make some sort of "peace treaty." That sort of interpretation of Daniel 9:27 is only a product of imagination and/or eisegesis.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
Hope: I'll check it out and see what I can do. I'm not very active in these type of discussion rooms. In fact, this is my first. And I'm finding that it is occupying an inordinate amount of my time. I enjoy and profit from the dialogue. I like to be challenged and I like to challeng others. But I do have to prioritize.
So I'll see what I can do. But FYI - Dispensational

Not meaning to change the subject, but I have posted a legitimate question below that you might be interested in taking up the challenge. I appreciate and enjoy my dialogue with you. The question is one I am struggling with. Perhaps you can help me out.

Faithful Remnant wrote:
Which doctrine do you adhere to?
Biblical Fundamentalism here.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
Your story changes. First you said God would not be God if His will could be resisted. Now you change to the elect wouldn't be elect if they resisted or something like that.

So are you saying that the Unelect can resist God's will and God is still God? If the unelect can resist God's will is he still sovereign?

or

You would have to contend that it was God's will for them to resist His will.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
Once again, Rom. 9 is not relating to Salvation but the Abrahamic Covenant. We must stay within context.

Isn't it possible that it is God's sovereign will for man to choose?

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
Says who?
That's human logic not Scripture.
Ac 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Ro 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
PS: Sorry about getting you in trouble with the other Calvanists for you being so Kind in your discussion.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

How would you respond to verse 19?

Unless they consider the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a sinner in such a way as to produce the desired results that God wants. Even if that is the case and man could resist the working of God's grace in his heart, it would make him more sovereign that God is.

I'm willing to bring scripture to the table or discuss them with you. I am very well acqainted with the independant fundamental Baptist having been one for a better part of 2 decades.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
I have seen John 6:37 used and have not used it because it does leave room for your argument although it does not validate it. It does not define who the all are.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
However, I fail to see where "usward" changes the context unless you redefine it to mean something that is not clearly stated.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
Let me pose another question. I know that it will seem harsh but it is not intended to be. What is the motivation for a Calvanist? If everything is already settled what motivates you? Why preach the gospel?

2. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. He uses the preaching of the word to bring gospel to His lost sheep.

Pastor Gary Click wrote:
Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9, the words "any" and "all" are qualified by the word "us-ward".

This is a problem I've encountered with many fundamental baptist, they will stress only a part fo a verse to prove their point, but when taken in the context of the rest of their verse, their presuppositions are shattered. One example is John 6:37, they will cite "and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." but when it is read in context, "***All that the Father giveth me shall come to me***; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." the meaning is completely different.

Romans 10:13 is another example, the word "call" means to invoke in worship, not just a hey you. Space is limited to go into more detai on Rom 10:13.

Reject Calvinism if you want, but don't reject the gospel of God's saving grace.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
No problem for you people who prefer he KJV, Though of course, you should first read something like the NKJV or even NIV first, and then you'll have it mind what the AV is trying to say.

Eve wrote:
No!
Why else have a tree of life.

Either you love God's word or you don't. If you truly loved God's word, you would not be going around and ripping apart and slamming it.

PILUT wrote:
Let me visualize Eph. 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of Works, lest any man should boast.
"through faith" is a prepositional phrase - you can't argue this!
Which means it's not the subject.
Salvation is the gift, and grace is the reason for the gift.
Now, suppose someone said "In that house is a gift for you, but the only way in is through one specific window."
Now, if you went through that window, would you automatically have the gift? Obviously the window passage isn't the gift, but merely access to it.

I agree with the analogy of the window being the access and not the gift. That is the point I have been trying to make with my fellow reformed.

Would you maintain that faith unto salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit wrought in the hearts of sinners or a work of the sinner wrought in and of himself?

Pikestaff wrote:
WCF Chapter 14. Of Saving Faith.
1. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls,(a) is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,(b) and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word;(c) by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.(d)

We can argue the point until the cows come home, but the point we can both agree upon is summed up in the points 1 and 1a of the WCF that the work of saving faith is a work of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of God's elect. Saving faith is not something drummed up by the work of unregenerate man. Would you agree?

Alan H wrote:
preacherjond & Kenny,