Mike wrote: Dan, what then would you say is the purpose of hearing the gospel to one who has been born again from above, i.e, one who has the indwelling Spirit of God and has eternal life already?
1 Cor. 1:21b "it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
So I'd say it's just how God wants to do it. When He quickens one of His elect the preaching of the Gospel that he had heard all his life and thought of as foolishness suddenly becomes everything to him! And that is an indicator to himself that he has been reborn. He knows he didn't just decide to believe. It was something that happened due to a renewed mind.
John UK wrote: Adriel, it is unfortunate that there are some people who do not yet understand what the word death means. They think it means "poorly", or "half-dead", or "disabled", or some such thing. The reason for this is because they do not take into account the promise of God to Adam concerning the effect of sin in his life. He sinned, but did not the same day keel over and bite the dust - dead. In fact he lived for a very long time afterwards, and then died - physically. Thusly the death he experienced immediately upon his sin was a spiritual death, making him incapable of anything spiritual. This is why you quoted Ephesians 2:1 which proves the point. Quickening is the very first requisite for a sinner, if he is to become a Christian, believing in Christ with all his renewed heart.
Amen John UK and Adriel. One does not have the capability of hearing the Gospel until he has been born again (from above). He does not have Life (with a capital L) until then.
Adriel wrote: John; J4 is NOT a Christian and cannot read the truth in Scripture. That's plain to see. At most he might be a disillusioned "nominal" or "Liberalist." He appears to want to contradict everything we say!- Thus contradicts the Bible. This is game-playing NOT theology. 2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." May GOD have mercy upon his soul! ---- PS: Demons know the Bible! - But cannot speak the truth!
Amen Adriel! Apparently no amount of biblical persuasion is going to have any effect on J4J. It's like trying to describe colors or sounds to a man who was born totally blind and deaf. And such a man has only been born once. So I believe it's another Jesus that he is for.
John UK wrote: Thanks Dan for sharing some of your testimony about how you and your family came to see certain doctrines in the Bible and brought you into a Scriptura position. Some people see it straightway, and others see it over a long period; and in eternity all will see just how sovereign the Lord God Almighty - JEHOVAH - actually is, and all will glorify him.
You're welcome. I was limited to 1300 characters and had to wait for someone else's post to continue but something told me I wouldn't have to wait very long.
There is a passage in John's gospel that I used to read through without understanding but now appreciate the spiritual meat contained there. It's chapter 6 verses 25 to the end. The answers to some of the points being discussed are in there!
2015 After much Bible study the younger son embraced these doctrines and moved his family from an Arminian church to a Grace oriented one. --- Observations from this experience: A person can be born again in a 'decisional regeneration' church in spite of the quasi christianity taught there because regeneration is all of God. But after MUCH BIBLE STUDY the true God will be discovered to be a bit different from the one that had been presented. The kind of Bible study I'm referring to is the exegetical kind and always observing context instead of cherry picking verses and reading into them what we would like them to say.
Note: Until recently, I would refer to myself as a Calvinist but now prefer the term Biblicist. It avoids the perception that I follow some man.
A brief sketch of my Christian experience with reference to the Doctrines of Grace: 1970 My own regeneration was followed by years of sitting under weak, Arminian preaching. 1982 A brother in Christ, in showing me a way to present the Gospel, exposed me to the Doctrines of Grace which I recognized as 'Calvinism' and therefore rejected because it didn't line up with what I had been taught. 1999 After much Bible study, I discovered that my brother in Christ was right! 2000 My wife was terrified by these doctrines but I continued to gently lead her to them using the whole Bible - not the sound bites she had been taught before. After a few years of biblical self study she said the Doctrines of Grace (especially the sovereignty of God in salvation) are all through the Bible! And she's angry about having been misled by preachers she had trusted. 2001 Our older son, a budding theologian, fought me over these doctrines contending that they were unbiblical!!! 2003 The older son, after much bible study, embraced and loved these doctrines. He wrote a paper on the sovereignty of God in salvation before becoming a minister. 2007 The younger son, after college and entering the work force, found a Christian girl whom God used to lead him to belief in Christ before they married.
John UK, I believe your excellent points are not going to bear fruit. I didn't see a direct response to your challenge in post #8 which was very clear and SHOULD make one think. But, as is usually the case with these online debates, direct challenges are sidestepped and the next point in their list is presented instead.
John UK wrote: Acts 13:48 KJV (48) And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Not all believed, but all those whom God ordained to eternal life believed. Just accept it. It makes life so much easier. BTW, one of the definitions of "ordain" is to 'destine' or 'predestine'. Bear that in mind when trying to grapple with this verse.
Thank you John. Here is what my KJV with Strong's had:
Strong's Definition A prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner that is assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot): - addict appoint determine ordain set.
AMEN 1517!! I dropped Premillennialism about a decade ago which I had grown up with as a Southern Baptist (dropped the SBC, too). Amillennial (realized) eschatology has been intensely studied since then and is where I've landed.
The above is a link to one of several sites reporting on a Sprite commercial coming to the USA. Don't scroll down too far on the page to avoid unacceptable ads. And if you watch the video have a barf bag nearby.
Enjoyed reading the comments so far. I might add that using a denominational label is only a convenience that quickly identifies you with a certain set of beliefs. In conversing with someone it serves as a filter but then you have to comb through what remains throwing out whatever is not biblical. I could say that I'm a Baptist but then I would have to refine that and add that my church holds to the doctrines of Grace for instance. That chops out a huge number of Baptist churches. The final filter has to be the Bible alone, though.
The headline for this article should have quotes around the word Christian or the words so-called added after the word Christian. It is misleading people who don't know that Roman Catholicism is not Christian and this article is about Roman Catholics in India on pilgrimage to a Marian shrine!