As I read these posts with disbelief, Paul's letters to the Corinthians leap to mind. I imagine the Corinthians might have thought the same of their own Pastor, Paul. Both letters illustrate Paul's zealousness in preaching the truth and God's standards for righteousness. In fact, Paul said, "I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the authority which the Lord has given me for edification and not for destruction" (2Cor 13: 10).
What this pastor did, on his own blog, his own internet ministry, was to warn the saints of God about an ungodly movie. When a pastor warns of a pitfall, what is your response? Oh boy, something else I have to give up? OR Praise God, I was warned...are my defenses high enough? If your response is the former, you better examine yourself. Do a heart check rather than accuse the bearer of the warning of being a bully.
Blogs don't seem to be conducive to Christian behavior. I am frequently dismayed at the character displayed by Christians when blogging over spiritual matters. Perhaps anonymity is to blame for careless logic and callous personal attacks. Perhaps blogs encourage ʽimpulse postingsʼ, which haven't been checked by prayerful consideration, but instead are fueled by rank spiritual pride.
Whatever the case, Jason and His dad stepped into this Pastor's own blog and began behaving like....bloggers, ggg. Let's see, to read their posts, this pastor is a spiritual bully, pummeling his congregation with a club (scripture). He has been compared to a false teacher, twisting scripture to hold power over the sheep. He has been labeled spiritually immature, with a mind not yet sufficiently renewed to minister God's Word. Wow. To read the comments by Jason and Dad, Pastor Chuck trained in the SS and the s doesn't stand for seminary...ggg. By the way, Iʼm one of his bruised and battered sheep, just limping in to read a word or two before the brain-washing becomes effective.
One’s holiness, since you bring it up in the quote on Korah, should not be compared with others (yours versus Jason’s – a comparison indirectly made in your responses), but with that of the Lord Jesus Christ. It that comparison, we are all found wanting. Jason and I have discussed the Dark Knight and many other issues of concern to today’s youth; we agree in some areas and disagree in others. He is learning from me, and I from him. Though I have studied the Word many years, and walked with the Lord through many difficult times and situations, I still have much to learn of God, His Word and His ways – and so does Jason. It saddens me to say this, but based on your responses to him, I know you are not yet mature enough in Christ to lead him into the truth as Christ would, so I have told him to have no more communication with you. Your position as pastor of a local body is an important one, and my prayer is that the Lord will use you effectively to further His Kingdom. Jason’s Father and Your Brother in the Lord
It troubles me that your church has the word “grace” in its name, but your responses do not show grace. When Christ encountered individuals who honestly sought the truth, he shared the truth and exhibited grace toward them; those that had evil intent in their hearts (and he knew their hearts) he rebuked. My son expressed his desire to grow and be a man of God; your response was one of condemnation. You say iron sharpens iron, yes, but when done with the right technique. God has done a great work in Jason’s heart; one you cannot see or know, for you have not tried to communicate with him or know him, but speak AT him. I believe you truly desire to see people living holy lives for the Lord; encourage them to do so through the Word, fellowship and prayer, but you also need to show grace and love. The balance is difficult, but necessary, and only achieved by the power of the Spirit.
In my son’s response to you, you seem to escape the emphasis he points out concerning your responsibility to convict people of their sin “It is every pastor's job to bring conviction upon God's people.” You attempt to defend yourself by assuming a position alongside Moses and quoting Scripture. Those tactics may work on some people, but such a misapplication of Scripture is out of line and is the type of defense used by some false teachers to protect their position. Re-read my son’s response with an open heart and not a defensive attitude and you will see his concern FOR you - that you don’t assume a role that belongs to the Holy Spirit. As a pastor it is your responsibility to hold forth the Word of God and to address those issues that the Lord’s leads you to address, but it is He that works in us, Phil 2:13, not the pastor.
Your position seems to focus on your position as a pastor in a local congregation and somehow that has translated into a position over the entire body of Christ. The role of a human under-shepherd is to lead people to the Great Shepherd, Jesus Christ, and teach them how to be His disciples, in submission to Him and His authority. “Hyper-authoritarian leaders, instead, lead people to themselves, and indoctrinate them to be their followers, in total submission to them and their authority. In essence, these dominating shepherds teach they are the church-members' de facto lord, master, and savior, rather than Christ.” Though you write of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and while your writing is generously sprinkled with Scripture, it communicates “Pastor Chuck” not Christ. Though not yet, you appear to be headed on the path to become one of these hyper-authoritarian leaders.
Pastor Chuck, I am Jason’s father and I have just read your postings. While I disagree with my son’s view of the Dark Knight, I find your personal attacks much more disagreeable (“This is evidence of a mind that has not been sufficiently renewed, and a conscience that has not been washed and revived by the Word of God (Ephs. 5:26)”).. These types of personal attack tactics in a discussion are usually used when someone is in a weak and losing position or feels threatened. Since you have taken the discussion to such a level, as Jason’s father and HIS spiritual authority, I need to address your postings.
You are in danger of being a spiritual descendant of Korah. I am reminded of a similar conversation Moses once had (no, I don’t think I’m Moses) :
Now Korah the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men; 2 and they rose up before Moses with some of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty leaders of the congregation, representatives of the congregation, men of renown. 3 They gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, "YOU TAKE TOO MUCH UPON YOURSELVES, FOR ALL THE CONGREGATION IS HOLY, EVERY ONE OF THEM, AND THE LORD IS AMONG THEM. WHY THEN DO YOU EXALT YOURSELVES ABOVE THE ASSEMBLY OF THE LORD?"
4 So when Moses heard it, he fell on his face; 5 and he spoke to Korah and all his company, saying, "Tomorrow morning the LORD will show who is His and who is holy, and will cause him to come near to Him. That one whom He chooses He will cause to come near to Him. 6 Do this: Take censers, Korah and all your company; 7 put fire in them and put incense in them before the LORD tomorrow, and it shall be that the man whom the LORD chooses is the holy one. YOU TAKE TOO MUCH UPON YOURSELVES, YOU SONS OF LEVI!" (Num 16:1-7)
I believe a thorough refresher course in the Pastoral Epistles would serve you well. God has defined the pastoral ministry. God has defined what the goal of preaching is. I am not concerned with what you “SENSE” in my writing, teaching, or preaching. I am only concerned with obeying the Lord’s command to “preach the Word… in season and out of season.” It seems clear that genuine preaching (in print or spoken) is out of season with you. The church of our era is suffering from SEEKER CENTERED and SEEKER SENSITIVE delusions and dogmas. It seems that you have been infected with an unhealthy sensitivity to authentic Biblical pastoral ministry.
This Holy Spirit inspired text commands pastors to preach the Word of God authoritatively in order to convince, rebuke, and exhort. It is every pastor's job to bring conviction upon God's people. This is not a denial of the work of the Holy Spirit, it is submission to the work of the Holy Spirit in convicting God's people of sin, righteousness, and judgment through the ministry of the Holy Spirit inspired Word.
*Where in here do you read anything about my or any pastor's position of authority? You don't. Instead, you read that God's Holy Spirit inspired Word commands pastors to preach the Word in order to "convince, rebuke, and exhort." It isn't a matter of pastors taking too much authority upon themselves. It is a matter of pastors obeying the Holy Spirit inspired Pastoral Epistles and thus preaching in such a way as to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in convincing, rebuking, and exhorting (or in another word, convicting).
Or perhaps you missed this part (the Holy Spirit inspired part)...
4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Tim 4:1-5)
Hello again Jason. You must have missed this part...
It is gloriously true that the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). It is also gloriously true that the Holy Spirit condescends to use earthly means toward that end. The Lord has practical means by which He sanctifies His people. Sanctification is an ongoing work of the Holy Spirit through the washing of the water of the Word of God.
It is God's will that every believer be in a local church where they are well known and well know the saints of God, for the mutual ministry of iron sharpening iron. Furthermore, it is God's will that every believer be in a local church where the full counsel of God is preached and taught by faithful pastors. This is the Lord's design for maturing, equipping, and sanctifying His saints. You are right that no church is perfect, and yet the Lord perfectly uses the local church and the local pastor to wash His people with the water of the Word. In the Pastoral Epistles we see the ministry of God's word starting in the home (parental instruction) and being furthered in the local church (pastoral instruction).
I sense in your writing an over-emphasis on your position of authority as a pastor; the Word is not your club or mine to wield as we desire. The people you minister to are all at different stages of spiritual growth; the Word of God (thru the Spirit) will speak to each of them where they are. If you want to see lasting change and not just outward conformity, let God do the work in His time. Remember, in your preaching you must also address your own heart; it’s not just you telling others what to do.
It’s not by a preacher personal authority or persuasiveness, no matter how well he knows scripture or how highly he is gifted. But solely by the authority and the power of Scripture itself, illuminated and applied by the Holy the Holy Spirit, that any ministry or Christian service can be spiritually effective and pleasing to the Lord.
While I agree with most of what you say the sentence “It is every pastor's job to bring conviction upon God's people.” is a little frightening. Remember, it is the Holy Spirit that brings conviction through the Word, not the pastor. The pastor and others, not just the appointed leader of a local body (pastor in your case), are to preach the Word. It is the Spirit that does the work. If you truly wish to submit to the work of the Holy Spirit in convicting God’s people of sin, let Him do it; His Word will not return void (Is. 55)
My heart’s desire is to be of man of God, completely yielded to Him in all my ways; my mind will never be sufficiently renewed and washed until I am completely conformed to the image of Christ, just as the Church we see in this world ( and I include all churches) is not without stain, wrinkle or blemish. If anyone’s life is dissected and probed, there will be evidence of not being “sufficiently renewed.” However, our Lord also sees us in our positional standing before Him, as individuals and the Body, through His righteousness that He has given us.
My heart and mind is fully known by God, and He will bring about the needed changes in my life (Ps 139). My limited life experiences have made it very clear to me that I am a poor judge of other’s motives, hearts, and minds (1 Sam 16:7). I am open to His leading and desire to press on in my Christian life. “ Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. (Phil. 1:12)
“This is evidence of a mind that has not been sufficiently renewed, and a conscience that has not been washed and revived by the Word of God (Ephs. 5:26).”
I know that as a Christian, my sanctification is a LIFE-LONG process. Philippians 1:6 makes it very clear that the Lord will continue the work HE BEGAN in me until I either die and go to be with Him or meet Him in the air. I also know that I must keep on being filled with the Spirit (Eph5:18), it is not just a onetime event or a plateau we may reach and never again need His filling. 1 John 1:9 tells me that I need to confess my sins and He will purify me from ALL unrighteous; the sins I need to confess are those that the Holy Spirit convicts me of, not simply what others will point out. Real change comes from the work of God within the heart. I have already changed some of my views on music, by the grace of God. And by His grace, He will continue to change me from the inside out, and the desires of my heart will become His (Ps. 37:4). For some of us, that change takes longer than others; but He loves all His children the same.
Please check out the new blog (Holiness vs. Entertainment... the continuing conversation). May the Lord richly bless you as you walk in the light of His Word.
What's the difference between Harry Potter, vs Lord of the Rings, and Chronicles of Narnia? Shouldn't LOTR and CN be classified as something like HP. After, all CN and LOTR do have witchcraft.
8/15/08 4:38 PM
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