Hello Mr. Foskey
I appologize for the delay in my response. I just started a college course and we just had a healthy baby born a month ago, so we’ve been plenty busy. However, I definately wanted to respond to you email. I also give you full permission to use any and all of my comments in your blog. You are free to use my name and information as well, I always welcome any questions and gospel discussions.
Thank you very much for your response. Discussions between those of different faiths do not happen in our everyday lives, though I think that they should. In the beginning of your request, I was impressed with a comment that you made. You said, “. I simply would ask that you consider my answers as to their merit before immediately beginning your rebuttals. I find that in these types of discussions (whether written or spoken) each side tends to be much more willing to talk than listen, and as such there is little headway made, if any at all”. Your comment was very wise and I completely agree. Unless we are willing to openly listen, and ponder, nothing can happen, and we cannot be lead into truth. I did try to be open and listen to your words.
1. First of all, I wanted to my express my respect for the beliefs that you shared in your response. Although we may disagree of many issues, I personally see much beauty and truth in your beleifs. Additionally,I can see, from scripture, why you might understand and interpret certain passages as you do. As I'm sure you'll agree, doctrines and Bible passages have been interpreted and understood differently for 1500+ years (hence the large number of Christian churches... Baptists, Methodists, Jehovah’s Witness, 7th Day, Presbyterians, my church etc.). Each group supports their beliefs with the Bible, including yourself, and when I read the passages that you share to support your beleifs, I can see why you might understand them as you do. I respect your love of and devotion to scriptures. Scripture is God’s word, and so we should be devoted to it. However, God has never said that we should LIMIT him by only listening to his ancient words, for He is a Living God that speaks today as He did in the past. God has never said that he would stop speaking to us, so we should not assume that he has. Without the clarification and light of revelation from God today (and authorized servants...prophets and apostles etc.), I think that there would always be disunity and confusion. But with that guidance of a Living God through living servants, there is truly one body, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and the ability to understand true doctrine until we all become one in perfection, in Christ (Eph. 4:4-5, 11-14). Again, although our beliefs differ, I respect yours and belief you have much truth.
2. DIFFERENT CHRIST?: Personally, I beleive that you and I beleive in the same Jesus, we just understand him differently,and this we do honestly for we both love God and truth and want to follow God correctly. If you and am lived back in Christ’s day, and saw him walking through the street, we could both look to each other and say, “That man there is the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, and our Savior. He is perfect, and we imperfect and fallen, and in need of help to overcome this. It is only through that man Jesus that we can be saved from our fallen state. We don’t understand every about him perfectly (his relation to God the Father, how works are involved in salvation, if he will continue to give revelation after his death etc.), but we love this man, and try our best to understand his teachings and follow him”. There is a common ground there (a common ground in Christ), and I greatly respect that.
3. WITNESSES: In your point number 2 below, you suggested that Christianity was spread by many witnesses (like the 12), where “Mormonism has no such witnesses; only the word of one man who claimed to have had a prophetic vision with no accompanying validation of his claims”. However, there were many are witness of “Mormonism” in addition to that of the prophet Joseph Smith, including the witnesses of many angels, appearances of resurrected beings (such as Peter, James, John, John the Bapstist, Moses, Elias, and even the Lord Jesus Christ), there were miracles, dreams, the Book of Mormon itself and many others. The greatest witness of the truthfulness of our message is the witness of the Holy Spirit, which testifies to the hearts and minds of those who are willing to listen to Him to find spiritual truths.
4. CHRIST: “SPIRIT BRO. OF LUCIFER”: I always find it interesting that those not of my faith are so troubled by our beleif that Lucifer and Christ and brothers. In John 20:17, Christ said that he was to ascend “unto my Father and you Father; and my God and your God”. This teaches that we and Christ and brothers, becuase we have the same Father. God is also the Father of the angels, including Lucifer. We are all therefore brothers. This does not take away from Christ or from his roles as the Creator, the Savior etc., for it is not who we are related to which defines who we are, but how we choose to live and who we choose to believe, love and follow.
5. WHO IS CHRIST’s FATHER: There have been comment made by some early church leaders which support that they believed that Christ’s birth was, as you put it, a “product of a physical marriage between Elohim and Mary”. However, this is not an official doctrine of the church. I can see how that is a natural/theory when one beleives that God has a body as we do. We do not know exactly how Christ was conceived, but it is true that we believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God the Father. The Holy Ghost did have some part in that miraculous conception/birth (what part we don’t know), but ultimately Christ is the Son of God the Father. Ask youself, when Christ talked of his Father, was he talking about The Holy Ghost or God the Father? (NOTE: Although I do not personally believe that Christ was conceived thru physical intercourse, please keep the following in mind: when intercouse occurs outside of God’s commandments and will, it is sin. However, when it occurs within God’s bounds and according to his will and wisdom, it is holy, good and righteous).
6. You said that Joseph Smith “claimed that he had done more for the world than even Jesus Christ”. I have read the quote that you refer to. He does not claim to do more for the world than Jesus, but speaks of being able to keep a church together. I admit that there appears to be a boasting tone in this quote. However, this is the ONLY Joseph quote that I have read among THOUSANDS that were of such a tone. I would not judge a man by one obscure quote, but by the aggregate of his words and his actions. I’m sure that you and I have said some pretty silly things. Everything else that I have read of the man Josepth Smith teach that he was a humble servant and witness of the Lord Jesus Christ. Joseph said, “Who, among all the Saints in these last days, can consider himself as good as our Lord? Who is as perfect? Who is as pure? Are they to be found? Where is one like Christ? He cannot be found on earth...salvation could not come to the world without the meditation of Jesus Christ... and now, after the many testimonies which has been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him, that He lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God, and we heard the voice bearing record – that by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters of God”.
QUESTIONS:
1. I would like some clarication on why you believe the Bible. You shared that your beleifs are largely based on the claim that the 12 apostles were witnesses of the resurrected Christ and they died for that belief. However, although they CLAIMED to have seen him, how do you know they are telling the truth? . For one things, we do not have individual testimonies of all 12 aposltes, but instead we have the testimonies of just a few of them. Additionally, the Bible says that over 500 others saw the resurrected Christ, but as far as I know, there are no other records outside of the apostles of people that claimed to have seen the resurrected Savior. Even if the apostles died for what they believed, many others have done this (as you stated), including Joseph Smith, who would not deny what he beleived. How do you know then that the apostles were telling the truth? You have based your whole life and salvation on te truthfulness of this Book, is there any more to your beliefs in the Bible than what you have shared?
2. Regarding Epistomolgy, you said in your last response to my questions that you were going to combine the responses of two of my questions into one (“How can a man know which set of beliefs is correct?” and “How do you personally know the Bible is true” – and I agree that these are some of the best and most important questions that we can ask ourselves). However, in your response I read only the answer to the 2nd question. I was hoping you could give more details specifically on the first question: How can a man know which set of beliefs is correct? Please consider the following. Let’s say that a man with no real religious background came to you for advice. He had read the teachings and scriptures of many belief systems (Protestant Christianty, Mormonism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Scientology etc.). Then, he comes to you and asks, “Mr. Foskey, among all of these different beliefs, how can I know FOR MY SELF which one is true?”. What would you were suggest that he do to know?
I hope to hear from you soon. Please feel free to ask me any questions at all, for I will deeply consider and ponder them, and will answer them in all honestly and as clear as I can. God bless you and your family!
Jonathan Hatch
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Hello Jonathan,
Again, I appreciate your attitude and I will continue to answer any of your questions and concerns so long as we both feel we are engaging in a mutually beneficial dialogue. Also, I will again be labeling my answers in accord with your numbers so that you (and those reading the blog) can follow along easily. |
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