In October, '06, Mike is talking to a recent defector, asking how he managed to heat his home during one of North Korea's harsh winters. The answer is astounding.

"We used wood for heat. Since people don't have money to buy wood, they go to the mountains to get it. The distance to the mountains is about eight miles, which takes us around five to six hours to walk. We'll leave at about 5:00 to 6:00 in the morning and arrive in the mountains around 10:00 a.m. We get back home around midnight."

Why so late, Kim wants to know. It's "only" five-six hours, after all.

"In North Korea, you need a permit to go into the mountains to get wood or you have to pay. We returned home late at night to avoid the police."

He goes on to explain that because there is such a shortage of wood in North Korea, it is illegal to cut it without a permit from the government.

"We're probably twice as fast as people here [in China]. We walk fast so we are able to do the hike in five to six hours. We see people walking on the streets here in China and wonder why they walk around so slowly. We each took a log about two meters long and dragged it back home. We made this trip every two or three days and we took turns going two at a time. So, thankfully our family was able to have heat every day. It was easier for us because we lived near the mountains... In big cities like Chongjin, you have apartments where there is no heat..."

Full time work, going to the mountains to get wood, Mike Kim queries?

"There's no work to do in North Korea. Even if you do work, they don't pay you. So why work?"