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Breaking News All | United Prayer | SA Center | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/4/2021
SATURDAY, OCT 10, 2020  |  25 comments
'Resume life as normal': Over 6,500 scientists and health professionals sign anti-lockdown petition
The authors advocate protecting those who are vulnerable while letting the rest of us get back to business as usual.

In support, the petition cites the low death rate among young and healthy people who contract the coronavirus, as well as the negative physical and mental effects of the continued lockdowns.

"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal," the scientists wrote.


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News Item10/11/2020 11:46 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
Just a trivial quibble, but to save you and John potential future embarrassment, it's *Turing*.
That was my error Neil, and I thank you for pointing it out. I must have subconsciously been thinking of the Turin Shroud.
25

News Item10/11/2020 11:07 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Frank wrote:
I had never heard of Alan Turin.
Just a trivial quibble, but to save you and John potential future embarrassment, it's *Turing*. Yes, my computing peers honor his contributions to Computability Theory (look up "Turing Complete"), and not without good reason, but he still must answer to God before the White Throne.

To be sure though, Turing's concepts have little direct value for my daily tasks.

24

News Item10/11/2020 10:15 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
The ever-present God, being outside of time, doesn’t look into the future at all. He’s already there.
23

News Item10/11/2020 5:42 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Good morning Adriel, and a happy Sunday to you also.

Thank you for your points, very helpful.

Yes, prophetic scripture can only come about, not because God looked into the future to see what was happening, but because he is the author of world history. And if that be true, no amount of flapping about will change one little thing, unless of course it was God's will to change certain things. But then, these things would also appear in the prophetic scriptures, and the scripture cannot be broken, once given. And so the book of Revelations is fixed, and those who try to change history are batting on a sticky wicket.

22

News Item10/11/2020 5:28 AM
Adriel  Find all comments by Adriel
John UK wrote:
Here's a deeper question. Do you believe that God wound up the world and started it ticking and then left it to see what would happen? Or do you believe he is fully involved in everything that happens in the world, even a sparrow falling to the ground?
Morning John.
The other day when we were looking at “foreknowledge” I came across an interesting statement which read
“God didn’t just create the here and now but also created the future, which is how HE knows what is ahead.”

Interesting point.

If God is like us “waiting” for the future how can He be Sovereign - omnipotent and omniscient.??

Have a blessed Sabbath.

21

News Item10/11/2020 5:14 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Chrisgp, you have written and posted thousands of words on this subject, and I am still none the wiser as to what you expect me to do about it.

I wonder, could you answer the question I asked CV a little while ago, which never got answered?

What am I doing that you think I ought not to be doing? And what am I not doing that you think I ought to be doing?

It seems a simple enough question.

Here's a deeper question. Do you believe that God wound up the world and started it ticking and then left it to see what would happen? Or do you believe he is fully involved in everything that happens in the world, even a sparrow falling to the ground?

If you believe the latter, what is all the anxiety about? Are you carrying burdens you ought not to be carrying? Jesus said, "take no thought for the morrow", but here you are, all anxious about the Bill Gates vaccine, and trying your best to get everyone else anxious as well.

It is not biblical for a Christian to be anxious. Check out Matthew 11:28-30 and apply it. Check out Peter saying, "Cast all your care on him, for he careth for you." Check out Jesus saying, "Fear not, little flock..."

Then read "Tortured for Christ" by Pastor Richard Wurmbrand.

20

News Item10/11/2020 4:03 AM
Chrisgp from England | England  Find all comments by Chrisgp from England
John YK, I only have one word for you. Sweden. The “guv” as you put it, is not infallible, nor is Matt Hancock, the Health Minister, nor Professor Whitty, nor Dr Vallance, (who has a clash of interests, he has money invested in a pharmaceutical vaccine company!!), nor the disgraced Professor Ferguson, whose dire predictions led to the original national lockdown in March, “for a couple of weeks to flatten the curve”, which lasted for months, and broke his own guidelines, for nefarious activities!! Sweden, apart from banning large scale events, and some simple physical distancing guidelines, had no lockdowns, closed no schools, shops, businesses, no mask mandates, and in fact to a great extent life was and is normal. Now the death and hospitalisation rate is very low, Norway (which did a lockdown), apologised to Sweden for previous harsh criticism it made, and I saw a photo of a Swedish high street taken last week, which was just the same as pre-COVID days!! What a difference. No Project Fear!!
19

News Item10/11/2020 3:28 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Well John I never claimed to be an expert on contagious diseases, but then you don’t have to be one to look at the data. Just the ability and willingness to read, and pay attention to details. Now as far as expertise in the disease field, when various experts not only contradict each other, but even themselves, which my daily record keeping has shown to be so, then maybe we might conclude their title carries more weight than their knowledge. Btw, I am willing to be enlightened as to how it is politicians are experts in medicine, and why therefore we should be ok with their medical directives. Simple questions ought to at least be asked, and not seen as foolishness.
Mike, I quite agree. Sometimes I look at the data being provided, but to be honest it bores me and makes me fall asleep. I do get the gist of it, though, and know that in the UK we are heading for another national lockdown, all because silly people did not obey the guv's guidelines and reintroduced the virus, mainly through young people.

You are right about politicians, and I am glad that from the PM down, they are taking advice of what to do from experts in the field. Of course no-one is expert in coronavirus yet because it is new.

18

News Item10/11/2020 2:33 AM
Chrisgp from England | England  Find all comments by Chrisgp from England
I have seen what happens when a tiny minority of unelected scientists, who often have vested interests, (ie they are involved in vaccine and pharmaceutical companies), and leftist (and tragically sometimes “Conservative” politicians) and globalists get together. This is the “new normal”. Lockdowns, social distancing, every aspect of life regulated by governments in a medical dictatorship, people filled with fear, bowed down under their masks. Mourners sat in a funeral, all in separate chairs, two of them move their chairs near to the widow to comfort her, as the minister begins to speak, the funeral director bursts in waving his arms, shouting that is forbidden, move your chairs away, and they comply!!!! That happened at a funeral in Britain!! People dying alone in hospitals and nursing homes. Elderly relatives can now only be visited by one designated fully masked and gowned family member in a pre booked meeting, no physical contact, no touching,masked, member of staff present. Children forced to wear masks in school, everything cancelled. Churches closed, or if open, masks, no singing, no communion, no social fellowship. The “new normal”, waiting for Bill Gates compulsory aborted parts vaccine!!!!
17

News Item10/10/2020 7:02 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
It is a good thing that he does, bro, as I don't think I have much of an IQ. Toyota used to make an IQ, one of the smallest cars in the world.
Not many people in the UK would have known about Turin, including me. But there is an excellent film made about that part of the war, and it focusses on Turin and the team that was set up to break the Enigma. I can't remember the title, but it may have been "Codebreaker", and makes excellent watching.
Brother, you know I think I have heard of the movie Codebreaker. Imagine how many lives that fellow saved. One day, we will find out why our heavenly Father worked the way He worked.

Deuteronomy 29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

16

News Item10/10/2020 6:52 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
—-
So why do you think that you are more of an expert concerning medical things like contagious diseases than the experts who have been working in this field for many years? Is it because you are viewing this current pandemic as a spiritual thing which can be discerned by those who are born again? Or do you see it with political eyes, eyeing up the political consequences of developing the pandemic?
Or are you another armchair general who tells the troops what they ought be doing?
Glad your sense of humour is back, bro.
Well John I never claimed to be an expert on contagious diseases, but then you don’t have to be one to look at the data. Just the ability and willingness to read, and pay attention to details. Now as far as expertise in the disease field, when various experts not only contradict each other, but even themselves, which my daily record keeping has shown to be so, then maybe we might conclude their title carries more weight than their knowledge. Btw, I am willing to be enlightened as to how it is politicians are experts in medicine, and why therefore we should be ok with their medical directives. Simple questions ought to at least be asked, and not seen as foolishness.
15

News Item10/10/2020 6:19 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Thanks brother! I had never heard of Alan Turin. But I have always thought that a scientist's IQ is normally much higher than the average fellow, so your example makes a lot of sense.
And, I thank God that IQs mean nothing in God's economy. He can and does use anyone to accomplish His purposes.
It is a good thing that he does, bro, as I don't think I have much of an IQ. Toyota used to make an IQ, one of the smallest cars in the world.

Not many people in the UK would have known about Turin, including me. But there is an excellent film made about that part of the war, and it focusses on Turin and the team that was set up to break the Enigma. I can't remember the title, but it may have been "Codebreaker", and makes excellent watching.

14

News Item10/10/2020 5:53 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
Bro, I think we do it every day.
Now if I mentioned a genius called Alan Turin, would you know about him? He was a mathematical genius, and he was a sodomite which, at the time he lived in England, was illegal.
The German war factory had developed a machine for sending vital messages in code; it was named The Enigma machine. No longer could British intelligence intercept messages. The machine was so deadly that no-one could unlock the way it worked. That was, until an ungodly sodomite with a huge brain, was called in to develop a decoding machine. And he did it! And it was vital for the war effort.
Now what I am saying is that Alan Turin was an expert in his field. So much so, that he was the top brain in England, despite being unregenerate.
And his story could be repeated a multitude of times in various circumstances.
Is that not fair comment?
Thanks brother! I had never heard of Alan Turin. But I have always thought that a scientist's IQ is normally much higher than the average fellow, so your example makes a lot of sense.

And, I thank God that IQs mean nothing in God's economy. He can and does use anyone to accomplish His purposes. Why He chose to use this fellow is above my pay grade.

13

News Item10/10/2020 5:43 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Adriel wrote:
Normal has been cancelled.
Correct! And this means that the pandemic and its news features will be still talked about over Christmas. I do hope it doesn't mean the Annual Christmas Debate will be cancelled, because I am quite looking forward to it.
12

News Item10/10/2020 5:05 PM
Adriel  Find all comments by Adriel
Normal has been cancelled.

A tiny little microbe has defeated the sophisticated society of mankind.

Man manifestly needs GOD — Without Him man is dead.

11

News Item10/10/2020 4:47 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Brother, you and I will agree on this issue.
Below is just me musing.
I tried to get an accurate percentage of scientists that believe in evolution. I did find the percentage of 99.9 mentioned several times. That would include these epidemiologists. Now how can anyone put their trust in a group such as this?
Bro, I think we do it every day.

Now if I mentioned a genius called Alan Turin, would you know about him? He was a mathematical genius, and he was a sodomite which, at the time he lived in England, was illegal.

The German war factory had developed a machine for sending vital messages in code; it was named The Enigma machine. No longer could British intelligence intercept messages. The machine was so deadly that no-one could unlock the way it worked. That was, until an ungodly sodomite with a huge brain, was called in to develop a decoding machine. And he did it! And it was vital for the war effort.

Now what I am saying is that Alan Turin was an expert in his field. So much so, that he was the top brain in England, despite being unregenerate.

And his story could be repeated a multitude of times in various circumstances.

Is that not fair comment?

10

News Item10/10/2020 3:25 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
Are these experts correct? Are they experts? And are they correct? What do you say, Mike?
Brother, you and I will agree on this issue.

Below is just me musing.

I tried to get an accurate percentage of scientists that believe in evolution. I did find the percentage of 99.9 mentioned several times. That would include these epidemiologists. Now how can anyone put their trust in a group such as this?

I personally have little respect for any scientific findings. That doesn't mean they are wrong, but that means I will use whatever information they provide and then rightly or wrongly use “my own logic” to determine what is right, wrong or uncertain.

I cannot believe how many ideologues there are. My wife buys into Trump's scientists and my daughters buy into the democratic scientists. If I ask any of them why, they simply look at me or say that’s what science says.

No Christian should or would resort to the following definition, but the world does.

soph•ist•ry = the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

9

News Item10/10/2020 3:23 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
German Lopez wrote:
.....
The question, given the reality of how long social distancing may be necessary, is how people are going to get through this. Even beyond the damage to the economy and the loss of income involved, people are going to miss out on a lot of the experiences that enriched and validated their lives before. Experts worry social distancing, even if it’s necessary, just won’t be sustainable for weeks or months.

But people did do social distancing for weeks and months during the 1918 flu pandemic.

Markel gave one potential explanation for that: People were already very familiar with the risk if they didn’t social distance. Back then, disease epidemics and pandemics of all kinds were common. Just about everyone knew someone — from parents to aunts and uncles to children — who died of disease....

excerpt from, "5 lessons on social distancing from the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic"

https://tinyurl.com/vgf5nw4

I suppose there should be a corollary to "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it"❗ "Those who don't know history are doomed not to repeat it"❗👎😷☣️

8

News Item10/10/2020 1:40 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Whether or not they are experts is not an issue, but whether what they say is true or false, which may well be observable without a degree.
Mike, you and I both know that having a degree is no guarantee of being an expert in that field. Experts are experts because they have experience, and the more experience, the more expert they become.

A car mechanic who has been fixing cars for twenty years, from mending a puncture, to stripping a carburettor, to changing a gearbox, to rebuilding an engine, to welding up the rusty sills, to changing the leaf springs, this man is an expert with cars, and there will not be many things he couldn't tackle. So he is an expert with cars and you are not.

So why do you think that you are more of an expert concerning medical things like contagious diseases than the experts who have been working in this field for many years? Is it because you are viewing this current pandemic as a spiritual thing which can be discerned by those who are born again? Or do you see it with political eyes, eyeing up the political consequences of developing the pandemic?

Or are you another armchair general who tells the troops what they ought be doing?

Glad your sense of humour is back, bro.

7

News Item10/10/2020 10:49 AM
Nick | USA  Find all comments by Nick
So, when are we going to start doing this "follow the science" thing.
6
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