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Breaking News All | United Prayer | SA Center | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/5/2021
THURSDAY, OCT 8, 2020  |  36 comments  |  2 commentaries
CT: Coronavirus Church Closures Are Not Persecution?
With the pandemic, it’s been unsettling for Americans to see local and state governments direct the closure of churches (as well as synagogues, mosques, and temples) for health reasons. It’s not something most of us have experienced before. However, I know many churches have found innovative new ways to gather virtually, or outdoors, for Sunday worship or fellowship. My church is no exception. It’s better than nothing, and we benefit from our communities of faith during these challenging times.

While the temporary closures are jarring for Americans, foreign governments permanently shut down places of worship all the time. Sadly, it is not unusual, but common. Persecution levels are at all-time highs worldwide, with more than three quarters of the global community facing severe limitations on the free practice of faith. Consequently, Christians of every denomination, people of other traditions, and ...


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Pence Mansplaining&CovidChurch • 340+
Jason Cooley | Old Paths Baptist Church
This isn't persecution • 420+
Sean E. Harris | Berean Baptist Church

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News Item10/11/2020 9:19 PM
HerbalMama  Find all comments by HerbalMama
I can relate all too well, John. Virtual communication complicates the matter ever more.
36

News Item10/10/2020 1:59 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
HerbalMama wrote:
Perhaps I interpreted it wrong. My humble apologies, John.
I still disagree with the bigger point but no further debate necessary as we would not see eye to eye on the matter. Have a good day.
No need for an apology, HerbalMama. It was probably my fault for not being clear enough. You know what it is like. You have something in your mind that you've been thinking about, and then you share it with someone else imagining that they will see what you see straight away, and they give you a stare which says, "Eh?"

You have a good day too.

35

News Item10/10/2020 1:51 PM
HerbalMama  Find all comments by HerbalMama
*good
34

News Item10/10/2020 1:51 PM
HerbalMama  Find all comments by HerbalMama
Perhaps I interpreted it wrong. My humble apologies, John.

I still disagree with the bigger point but no further debate necessary as we would not see eye to eye on the matter. Have a goox day.

33

News Item10/10/2020 3:55 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
HerbalMama wrote:
John UK, you stated: "There are many people in this world who have no wisdom, Mike. They do not know God, and they have only the so-called wisdom of the world.
The Bible says that those who deny the existence of God are fools.
But as restrictions were eased off gently, the fools, having no peace in their hearts, went on a rampage of hedonism, and disobeyed all the restrictions, thinking those restrictions to be nonsensical, when in fact it was they who were acting nonsensically."
There. Unless fools doesn't always mean fools.
HerbalMama, thanks for replying and explaining. I see now where you think I was referring to some Christians as fools. But if you look more carefully, I said that biblically, those who deny the existence of God are fools. So the "fools" here in context, cannot refer to Christian people. No, the fools I mentioned are atheists, the majority of the population here in the UK. These fools foolishly, in accordance with their nature, went from obeying the guidelines and restrictions to disobeying the guidelines and restrictions, just as soon as there was a chance to do so. And that foolish act has brought us right back to square one in the UK. Read my post again. Thanks.
32

News Item10/9/2020 8:27 PM
Watcher  Find all comments by Watcher
Frank wrote:
I agree fully. We went in as usual and seated ourselves as usual and then we noticed it. And then we decided to stay, but you are very correct. Had I understood what was taking place (see below) I should have stood up and complained and walked out. My wife and I actually discussed whether or not the ordinance had changed and neither of us were sure.
As far as I see it, the staff's lack of care is no different than yours.
Pretty harsh conclusion above. Anyway, we were caught by surprise; they weren't.
And because you felt it necessary to make me into some type of hypocrite that doesn't love his wife as much as I should, let's agree to ignore each other from now on.
Before you say something so ugly to a brother, you should ask why.
Oh I do forgive you.
I didn't want you to take the criticism so harshly Frank, and this is exactly what I am talking about with people today. No one can take the truth in love anymore without getting their noses out of joint. We're all hypocrites one way or the other Frank. Just take my words in the spirit of love as they are meant. All I was hoping was you would take them to heart and be more careful seeing as you yourself said you were higher risk.
31

News Item10/9/2020 7:18 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Watcher wrote:
Forgive me for being pointed, brother, but if you wanted to do what was best to keep you and your wife safe, why potentially expose yourself to COVID by going into the restaurant in the first place? As far as I see it, the staff's lack of care is no different than yours.
I agree fully. We went in as usual and seated ourselves as usual and then we noticed it. And then we decided to stay, but you are very correct. Had I understood what was taking place (see below) I should have stood up and complained and walked out. My wife and I actually discussed whether or not the ordinance had changed and neither of us were sure.

As far as I see it, the staff's lack of care is no different than yours.

Pretty harsh conclusion above. Anyway, we were caught by surprise; they weren't.
And because you felt it necessary to make me into some type of hypocrite that doesn't love his wife as much as I should, let's agree to ignore each other from now on.

Before you say something so ugly to a brother, you should ask why.

Oh I do forgive you.

30

News Item10/9/2020 6:38 PM
HerbalMama  Find all comments by HerbalMama
John UK, you stated: "There are many people in this world who have no wisdom, Mike. They do not know God, and they have only the so-called wisdom of the world.
The Bible says that those who deny the existence of God are fools.
But as restrictions were eased off gently, the fools, having no peace in their hearts, went on a rampage of hedonism, and disobeyed all the restrictions, thinking those restrictions to be nonsensical, when in fact it was they who were acting nonsensically."

There. Unless fools doesn't always mean fools.

I'm reminded of my husband's words, "People deserve the government they get." In the Bible you'll find that teaching in 1 Samuel 8:6-22

29

News Item10/9/2020 6:24 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
HerbalMama wrote:
Was it really, once again, implied that those that don't buy into fear and propaganda are fools and deny God?
HerbalMama, who are you addressing? Me?

I think it must be me, because I am the only one who mentioned psalm 14:1, about the fact that it is the fool who says in his heart, there is no God.

In that case, I believe you misunderstand what I was saying, and want to give you a chance to go back on your assertion concerning "this crowd" and "mob mentality" reigning supreme. That was hurtful, and designed to be so.

What I suggest is that you actually quote something I said, from my post, which led you to say what you did, and explain to me why you said it. This will give me an opportunity to explain, if any explanation is due. Thank you.
______________

Mike, it is not a head scratcher if the experts are Christian men and women, who do have the Holy Spirit. It is also true that not all Christians have wisdom. How do I know if you have wisdom, or John MacArthur, for example.

I gotta turn in. G'night all.

28

News Item10/9/2020 6:23 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
There are many people in this world who have no wisdom, Mike. They do not know God, and they have only the so-called wisdom of the world.
The Bible says that those who deny the existence of God are fools. In the UK the Christians are surrounded every day by fools.
Recently, thanks to the work of the guv, we had broken the back of the coronavirus, and after short space we should have defeated it and returned to normal. But as restrictions were eased off gently, the fools, having no peace in their hearts, went on a rampage of hedonism, and disobeyed all the restrictions, thinking those restrictions to be nonsensical, when in fact it was they who were acting nonsensically. What do you think happened? Nothing?
Not at all. We are now experiencing more cases each day than we had in the first wave.
—-
This is interesting, John, thank you. On the one hand those who do not know God have no wisdom, only worldly wisdom. Christians surrounded by fools, as you say. On the other hand, we should listen to unwise fools in our governments who know not God, apparently because, though Christians do have wisdom, they are unable to discern truth from falsehood, and so require unbelievers to provide them discernment. A head scratcher.
27

News Item10/9/2020 6:17 PM
HerbalMama  Find all comments by HerbalMama
If you don't consider the other sides argument and dismiss them as anti-christian without hearing them out you are not objectively viewing truth. You are guilty of what you accuse others of - subjective truth.
26

News Item10/9/2020 6:15 PM
HerbalMama  Find all comments by HerbalMama
Was it really, once again, implied that those that don't buy into fear and propaganda are fools and deny God? 🤦 There is no reasoning with this crowd. Mob mentality reigns supreme.
25

News Item10/9/2020 5:26 PM
Watcher  Find all comments by Watcher
MusicGal wrote:
True Watcher. Someone I know wrote this: "TRUTH IS SUBJECTIVE. Individual. Not really, but I observe this as a trending belief in our culture. That belief is self-serving, don’t be mistaken. Truth by definition is the quality or state of being true. Truth is stubborn, fixed and uncompromising. Instead, in so many instances close to me and on national television, I see people treating truth as subordinate to personal preference. It can certainly be personally expedient to assume that whatever you think or whatever you say is true. But that’s dishonest. It’s dangerous to trust & it’s ruinous of relationships. Why? Because that interpretation of truth is untrue."
Yep. Very true MG. Hence why people such as ourselves who speak the truth get in trouble so much when others get offended. I don't speak the truth to hurt, but to help. It's always out of love, never out of spite, yet so many people take it as such and get their noses out of joint.
24

News Item10/9/2020 5:22 PM
MusicGal  Find all comments by MusicGal
Watcher wrote:
Exactly, just because it's right in someone's eyes, doesn't make it right. We see this all the time in court where criminals are charged with a crime because they thought, at the time, it was the right thing to do.
True Watcher. Someone I know wrote this: "TRUTH IS SUBJECTIVE. Individual. Not really, but I observe this as a trending belief in our culture. That belief is self-serving, don’t be mistaken. Truth by definition is the quality or state of being true. Truth is stubborn, fixed and uncompromising. Instead, in so many instances close to me and on national television, I see people treating truth as subordinate to personal preference. It can certainly be personally expedient to assume that whatever you think or whatever you say is true. But that’s dishonest. It’s dangerous to trust & it’s ruinous of relationships. Why? Because that interpretation of truth is untrue."
23

News Item10/9/2020 4:59 PM
Watcher  Find all comments by Watcher
John UK wrote:
There are many people in this world who have no wisdom, Mike. They do not know God, and they have only the so-called wisdom of the world.
The Bible says that those who deny the existence of God are fools. In the UK the Christians are surrounded every day by fools.
Recently, thanks to the work of the guv, we had broken the back of the coronavirus, and after short space we should have defeated it and returned to normal. But as restrictions were eased off gently, the fools, having no peace in their hearts, went on a rampage of hedonism, and disobeyed all the restrictions, thinking those restrictions to be nonsensical, when in fact it was they who were acting nonsensically. What do you think happened? Nothing?
Not at all. We are now experiencing more cases each day than we had in the first wave. Local lockdowns are now being tried to avoid going back to full lockdown, but I'll tell you what I think, bro. I believe the UK will go back to an even fuller lockdown, which might last over a year.
Exactly, just because it's right in someone's eyes, doesn't make it right. We see this all the time in court where criminals are charged with a crime because they thought, at the time, it was the right thing to do.
22

News Item10/9/2020 4:51 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Frank is doing what he thinks best, and it is right for him to do so. It is based on what he knows about himself. It's called wisdom. It should be allowed others as well, no?
There are many people in this world who have no wisdom, Mike. They do not know God, and they have only the so-called wisdom of the world.

The Bible says that those who deny the existence of God are fools. In the UK the Christians are surrounded every day by fools.

Recently, thanks to the work of the guv, we had broken the back of the coronavirus, and after short space we should have defeated it and returned to normal. But as restrictions were eased off gently, the fools, having no peace in their hearts, went on a rampage of hedonism, and disobeyed all the restrictions, thinking those restrictions to be nonsensical, when in fact it was they who were acting nonsensically. What do you think happened? Nothing?

Not at all. We are now experiencing more cases each day than we had in the first wave. Local lockdowns are now being tried to avoid going back to full lockdown, but I'll tell you what I think, bro. I believe the UK will go back to an even fuller lockdown, which might last over a year.

21

News Item10/9/2020 4:50 PM
Watcher  Find all comments by Watcher
Frank wrote:
But, for the record. A few days ago my wife and I visited one of our favorite restaurants. The entire staff disobeyed the mask mandate and removed the restrictions posted on their doors. Because of their lack of concern for us old timers, my wife and I will never and I mean never visit this restaurant again.
Yes, I am doing what I think is best for my wife and I.
Forgive me for being pointed, brother, but if you wanted to do what was best to keep you and your wife safe, why potentially expose yourself to COVID by going into the restaurant in the first place? As far as I see it, the staff's lack of care is no different than yours.
20

News Item10/9/2020 4:03 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
Frank is doing what he thinks best, and it is right for him to do so. It is based on what he knows about himself. It's called wisdom. It should be allowed others as well, no?
As for my convertible, if the roof has holes in it larger than raindrops, I might be tempted to conclude it isn't likely to keep raindrops from passing through it, even if non-automobile experts say it will keep me from getting wet, and more importantly that it will keep occupants of other convertibles from getting wet.
But, for the record. A few days ago my wife and I visited one of our favorite restaurants. The entire staff disobeyed the mask mandate and removed the restrictions posted on their doors. Because of their lack of concern for us old timers, my wife and I will never and I mean never visit this restaurant again.

Yes, I am doing what I think is best for my wife and I.

19

News Item10/9/2020 3:00 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Hi Mike, Frank, thanks for your comments.
I don't know where you get this 'fear' thing from, Mike.
If heavy rain is a possibility, and you have to go out in your convertible, why do you put the roof up before leaving? Is it out of fear, or is it merely a sensible precaution? Or (as Frank says) out of concern, in this case a common sense concern?
Frank is doing what he thinks best, and it is right for him to do so. It is based on what he knows about himself. It's called wisdom. It should be allowed others as well, no?

As for my convertible, if the roof has holes in it larger than raindrops, I might be tempted to conclude it isn't likely to keep raindrops from passing through it, even if non-automobile experts say it will keep me from getting wet, and more importantly that it will keep occupants of other convertibles from getting wet.

18

News Item10/9/2020 1:38 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Hi John, well let me see. Since flu vaccine is 45-55% effective, but not likely known by most, the answers to the 5 questions is yes. But if doing so makes them less fearful, it’s useful in that regard. Perhaps the rushed covid experimental vax will lessen the present fear as well.
Frank wrote:
Hey brother!
I get the flu shot every year because I am old and have COPD, diabetes and hypertension. So, if I get the flu, I am very likely to die. The same would go for Covid 19. If I am still alive when a vaccine comes out, then I will take that as well. I am not an epidemiologist so I just go by what I think is logical for me. I wear a mask when in public places and I wash my hands when getting back in the car or back home. I am not aware that I do these things because of fear; concern would be a better word.
Hi Mike, Frank, thanks for your comments.

I don't know where you get this 'fear' thing from, Mike.

If heavy rain is a possibility, and you have to go out in your convertible, why do you put the roof up before leaving? Is it out of fear, or is it merely a sensible precaution? Or (as Frank says) out of concern, in this case a common sense concern?

17
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