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Breaking News All | United Prayer | SA Center | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  1/21/2022
MONDAY, OCT 5, 2015  |  108 comments
The Next Big Science vs. Church Battle: Can Transhumanism and Christianity Co-Exist?

Can churches engage transhumanism, which may very well be the next big science vs. religion battle, positively or should they absolutely resist this movement, an academic institution in Alabama asked during a multi-day event focused on whether Christianity and Transhumanism could co-exist.

Samford University's Center for Science and Religion held the event, titled "Transhumanism and the Church," which took place from Sept. 24-26 and featured 27 presentations with approximately 120 attendees for the opening lecture alone.

Transhumanism is the theory that science and technology can be used to advance the evolution of human beings beyond current physical and mental limitations. ...


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News Item10/10/15 12:09 PM
no golden calf | viewer  Find all comments by no golden calf
pennned wrote:
several documentaries.
[URL=http://vaxxter.com/index.php/2015/10/09/vacciness-the-truth-behind-vaccinations/]]]truth behind Vaccinations : science examined[/URL]
In this video, several Pediatricians, Doctors and scientist debunk the myth that vaccines are safe and good for us. They discuss how there is an unsaid “law that vaccines are good for us” and there there just isn’t enough science to back the claim that vaccines work. This is a collection of several documentaries compiled into one, like Silence on Vaccines and The Greater Good.
108

News Item10/10/15 11:33 AM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
that is correct. what they call progress is actually a further destruction of the seed that leads to illness, in reality is eugenics. this is why mega rich will use the courts to push gms but probably at home eat organic.

http://vaxxter.com/index.php/2015/10/09/vacciness-the-truth-behind-vaccinations/?utm_source=CCNewsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=TheTruth

a collection of several documentaries.

where are the Christian ethicists? .. who speak of future theories but refuse to speak on present realities?

107

News Item10/10/15 11:13 AM
good break | lake  Find all comments by good break
Rom 1:21-25Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed
the glory of the uncorruptible God

into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

As man is made in "the image of God" Gen. 1:27
transhumanism fits this Romans 1 condemnation..

Besides...given the complexities, what are the odds improvements could occur? The silly lie of random mutations evolving upwards, relies on ignorance of 4 dimensional gene structure,etc.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016622360400205X
Just a link to note yes this concept exists.

106

News Item10/10/15 8:11 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
good break wrote:
looking at 8 prophecies of Christ- the chances that
" one man in how many men, the world over, will fulfill all eight prophecies? This question can be answered by applying our principles of probability. In other words, by multiplying all of our estimates together,..".."This gives 1 in 2.8 x10 to28th power,where 28 means that we have 28 ciphers following the 2.8. Let us simplify and reduce the number by calling it 1 in 10to 28thWritten out this number is 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000."
This is a valid example of how to logically harness Mathematics to challenge the skeptic about biblical matters.
105

News Item10/10/15 7:37 AM
good break | sat down  Find all comments by good break
[URL=http://sciencespeaks.dstoner.net/Christ_of_Prophecy.html#c9]]]science Speaks: Scripture Statistcs Stats[/URL]
Best use of #s with Bible:

Peter Stoner

For example-

looking at 8 prophecies of Christ- the chances that

" one man in how many men, the world over, will fulfill all eight prophecies? This question can be answered by applying our principles of probability. In other words, by multiplying all of our estimates together,..".."This gives 1 in 2.8 x10 to28th power,where 28 means that we have 28 ciphers following the 2.8. Let us simplify and reduce the number by calling it 1 in 10to 28thWritten out this number is 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
"
Division by conservative history of people on earth thru all history is 1 chance in 10,000,000,000,000,000 -
Peter Stoner goes on to show that the evidence equals ontological certitude :
Math confirmation of the Risen Lord's authority&reliability.

This use of math distills intuition to show the authority of Christ-the Lord of creation - who warns against men's corrupt plans.

Transhumanism echoes Romans 1:21-25.
Christ our Creator has a better plan for us than degrading people to plants&animals.

104

News Item10/9/15 10:50 AM
Hoggy Fan | fly day  Find all comments by Hoggy Fan
Mike wrote:
Under the definition of "pattern" one would be hard pressed to find "disorderly patterns," no?
good point

It is similar to the Pattern in DNA in
this Human design, that
MANY warn will become disorganized
if we mess with it.

The rotten idea of mixing human DNA with mice, that Hoggard etc warn is an abomination is similar to corruption of the word of God by cutting out parts or adding to it. (as the last chapter of the Book warns against.

don't pull the tapestry's thread!
--
Patterns of #s can mean something, as you say: and that is where Henry Morris focuses. He warns (in link below)

"...."spiritualizing" interpretations, whether based on numerology or typology or anything else, are not sound hermeneutics. Numbers in the Bible should never be used to prove or even to intimate any point of doctrine. The same caution should be observed in connection with any other structural phenomena in the Bible (types, first mentions, etc.)"

Morris goes on to look at patterns of #s similar to O.T. picture of N.T. truth that the ark, Joseph, Jonah, etc are examined to enlighten us.

most obvious example is the number "seven,"
&
10, 12, 40, 70, 666 also seem significant.
But scepticism is good.
Be Berean.

103

News Item10/9/15 9:43 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Hoggy Fan wrote:
Dr. Morris:
It is important to note that there are infinitely more random, disorderly patterns possible with a given number of components than there are orderly patterns. Randomness is statistically probable; order is statistically improbable. When one deals often with data of any kind on a statistical basis, the tendency is to develop an instinctive feeling as to what is and what is not strictly accidental'"
& proceeds to look at Bible # patterns
There seems to be more people than Bullinger and Putin amused with an issue that does not pertain to Scripture, yet making it pass as it were. This is sad.

------

Mike: perhaps this is a wrong term, instead of 'pattern' it should read 'outcome'

102

News Item10/9/15 9:40 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Hoggy Fan wrote:
Dr. Morris:
---
So far as known, such an analysis has never been done. We must, therefore, rely on our own judgment or instinct. It is important to note that there are infinitely more random, disorderly patterns possible with a given number of components than there are orderly patterns. Randomness is statistically probable; order is statistically improbable.
---
Slight off-track
Under the definition of "pattern" one would be hard pressed to find "disorderly patterns," no?

Pattern: Consistent and recurring characteristic or trait that helps in the identification of a phenomenon or problem, and serves as an indicator or model for predicting its future behavior.

verb:
give a regular or intelligible form to.

101

News Item10/9/15 9:29 AM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
Not relating to a Bible text but remembering that when I was 9 years old I was taught a system for checking my math calculations by casting out nine's.

It was taught to me my a very intimidating Jewish woman, who was my advanced math teacher. I was timid and had a slight voice and she used to threaten me that I'd have to read from the closet if I didn't speak up.

I remember the hate/love relationship. She was a good math teacher but?

Many years later I used her method to befriend a neighbor and though his death greatly affected me, I had no opening to share truth with his family as I assisted his daughters in his death bed care.

The math teacher came under my superiority many years later and though she didn't recall me, I remembered. But by that time I'd been forgiven, so I was able to forgive her and return the help I'd been given.

God's ways are not our ways neither his thoughts our thoughts. So much higher!

100

News Item10/9/15 9:17 AM
Hoggy Fan | fly day  Find all comments by Hoggy Fan
B. McCausland wrote:
It appears to be an arithmetic principle based on the decimal system, and not an intrinsic matter related to the Bible text then ??
Dr. Morris:
in link below:
uses his math experience
to note that
"A related question is whether since so many different numbers and other mathematical concepts exist, and since there are so many different ways in which mathematical patterns might, therefore, be formed, aren't some mathematical patterns to be expected?

The answer to this question could only be obtained with a sophisticated statistical analysis. The analysis would contrast the meaningful, orderly mathematical patterns with the meaningless, random patterns in the same chapter.

So far as known, such an analysis has never been done. We must, therefore, rely on our own judgment or instinct. It is important to note that there are infinitely more random, disorderly patterns possible with a given number of components than there are orderly patterns. Randomness is statistically probable; order is statistically improbable. When one deals often with data of any kind on a statistical basis, the tendency is to develop an instinctive feeling as to what is and what is not strictly accidental'"

& proceeds to look at Bible # patterns

99

News Item10/9/15 9:05 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Hoggy Fan wrote:
no matter what # you use,
if you [add its digits together,
subtract this from the original #,
& then repeatedly sum the digits of the resulting numbers],
the answer is always 9
It appears to be an arithmetic principle based on the decimal system, and not an intrinsic matter related to the Bible text then ??
98

News Item10/9/15 8:57 AM
Hoggy Fan | fly day  Find all comments by Hoggy Fan
Dave wrote:
Gods finality no.
no matter what # you use,
if you [add its digits together,
subtract this from the original #,
& then repeatedly sum the digits of the resulting numbers],
the answer is always 9

Take the number 3,568 for example:

Add those digits: 3 + 5 + 6 + 8 = 22
Subtract 22 from original #: 3,568 - 22 = 3,546
Add those digits : 3 + 5 + 4 + 6 = 18
Add those digits : 1 + 8 = 9
you come up with 9
no matter what you do
--
these type of things are what led Bullinger to go
too far :
from book(link below)
" Among others may be mentioned (1) that the sum of the digits which form its
multiples are themselves always a multiple of nine; e.g., 2 x 9 = 18 (and 1+8=9); 3 x 9
= 27 (and 2+7=9); 4 x 9 = 36 (and 3+6=9); 5 x 9 = 45 (and 4+5=9), etc., etc.; and so
with the larger numbers: 52843 x 9 = 475587 (and 4+7+5+5+8+7=36, and 3+6=9). (2)
The sum of its multiples through the nine digits = 405, or 9 times 45.
It is the last of the digits, and thus marks the end; and is significant of the conclusion of a
matter.
It is akin to the number 6, 6 being the sum of its factors (3x3=9, and 3+3=6), and is thus
significant of the end of man, and the summation of all man's works."
-but-
Bullinger goes too far:

97

News Item10/9/15 6:52 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Dave wrote:
... the day at Calvary and the presence of 9 and it's chain sequences . 9 appears to be Gods finality no. Not to mention that that 9times any other single digit no, if you add the 2 numbers of the answer it will always come back to 9 ie 3x9=27 , 2+7=9.

... it has been a very useful tool in getting the attention of people who in my case wouldn't even give me a leg in the door when I approach with gospel message, 2 very logical thinking builders I know have been shown these facts then on realisation that these number sequences exist have began to read the bible ...
... I would be very careful to proclaim anything in the woven fabric of Gods word as occultism.

Friend, any 'intro' to get people think about the Scriptures is fine, yet, the sequence you present above seems puzzling. Sorry, this does not intent to undermine you personally, but it is hard to follow the sense of your statements in the first paragraph above.
Please, do not feel oblige to respond in any way if you do not wish.
Take care
96

News Item10/8/15 5:50 PM
Dave | Oz  Find all comments by Dave
Thanks Pennned
In the beginning God created the Heaven and Earth.
Good comment.
Now jump to the day at Calvary and the presence of 9 and it's chain sequences . 9 appears to be Gods finality no. Not to mention that that 9times any other single digit no, if you add the 2 numbers of the answer it will always come back to 9 ie 3x9=27 , 2+7=9.
95

News Item10/8/15 10:43 AM
Hoggy Fan | torus day  Find all comments by Hoggy Fan
pennned wrote:
Hebrew letters
Panin wasn't showing "mystic' powers:
from book,below link:
1.
Historically, Hebrew Letter DO represent #s
(pre-invention acceptance of Arabic Numerals)

2.
Greek Letters= #s

3.CILLI romans never got out of that habit either; er, silly.
----
Panin, says below

Genesis 1:1
"Bareshith Bara Elohim hashamayim waet ha eret." transliterated Hebrew.

a 7 words with 28 letters,
b 4 7s
c the 1st 3 words, have 14, with a Place Value of 140, or 20 7s
d last 4, the 2 objects of the sentence,have also 14, or 2 7s
e the 2 objects each = 7 letters
f Another division of 7 into 3&4 produces 3 leading words: God, the heavens, the earth, have 14;
g the remaining four have also 14 or 2 7s with 924 for the value, or 132 sevens
h divided thus: Place Value has 147, or 3 7s of 7s
i the Numeric Value has 777, itself 111 sevens
j of which the units have 7
k the tens=7
l the hundreds have 7
m middle word, the shortest, has 7 letters with its right hand neighbour
n 7 with its left hand neighbour
the chance for these 2 sevens of features of seven being accidental,
undesigned is 1 in 7 multiplied by itself 14 times,
= 678,623,072,849
elaborate design of 7s thus runs thru 7 words:Gen1:1
Mathtic?

94

News Item10/8/15 9:56 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Hoggy Fan wrote:
1. incredible design
Just Like DNA, woven tapestry of God's Word is DESIGN.
2. Blunt
1. No question that there is an exceptional design in God's plan of Redemption at face value, spoken as 'the unsearchable riches of Christ' and 'the manifold wisdom of God' in Eph 3, but not in encrypted meaning.
God is a God of truth, and though there are hidden treasures of wisdom, he does not abide around ambiguities, and chances as the numerical theories do.

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" Rom 11:33

2. It is not safe to resource to rationalism

"Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you ... in all his epistles, speaking ... things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
... therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 2Pe 3:15-16

93

News Item10/8/15 9:33 AM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
Hoggy Fan wrote:
which has been studied at great length by Dr. Ivan Panin and his followers is more questionable. These writers believe that the original Hebrew and Greek texts are filled with numerical patterns
well, yes, the Hebrew letters having mystical powers in themselves is kabbal, why are Christian writers flirting with the occult?
92

News Item10/8/15 9:03 AM
Hoggy Fan | torus day  Find all comments by Hoggy Fan
B. McCausland wrote:
Criticism from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Panin
'...the same kind of numeric patterns can be found in any text, yet the methods used for casual demonstrations of this nature lack the requisite depth to draw conclusions"
the iterations of this type of structure is what is distinctive:

"So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Has smaller fleas that on him prey;
And these have smaller fleas to bite 'em.
And so proceeds Ad infinitum."

and a Mathematician expanded on this:
"Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.
And the great fleas themselves, in turn, have greater fleas to go on,
While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on."

Panin, in his day,
had no takers on his challenge to find the type of phenomena he presented.

And, as with a 'simple cell'
the more you look at incredible design,
the more you marvel.

[URL=http://biblecourses.com.au/blunt/index.html]]]Blunt's Undesigned Scriptural Coincidences[/URL]
: a better approach to this type of apologetics.
In Blunt, you keep within the text:
a fun study if you've never read these.

Just Like DNA, woven tapestry of God's Word is DESIGN.

91

News Item10/8/15 8:35 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Hoggy Fan wrote:
quote
"... Panin's approach seems persuasive, but in others it seems artificial. At best, this particular type of numerical study is still quite uncertain and so cannot be cited as a Christian evidence."HMM
Criticism from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Panin
'...the same kind of numeric patterns can be found in any text, yet the methods used for casual demonstrations of this nature lack the requisite depth to draw conclusions"
90

News Item10/8/15 7:56 AM
Hoggy Fan | torus day  Find all comments by Hoggy Fan
B. McCausland wrote:
2. A. Panin.. Greek text,
B. 'coincidences':
agreed!

That's why I gave Morris's take on Panin[10/7/15 8:02A]

(Dr. Morris helped confirm my take on Panin-who goes too far.)

"On the other hand, the phenomenon of "Bible numerics" which has been studied at great length by Dr. Ivan Panin and his followers is more questionable. These writers believe that the original Hebrew and Greek texts are filled with numerical patterns in the arrangement of the very words and letters. Panin even developed his own Greek New Testament by applying the criterion of the presence of numeric patterns as the test of authenticity of any particular passage. This evidence has very doubtful statistical significance, however, and some writers have claimed to be able to find similar numeric patterns in other books and documents. In some cases, Panin's approach seems persuasive, but in others it seems artificial. At best, this particular type of numerical study is still quite uncertain and so cannot be cited as a Christian evidence."HMM

BUT some accumulations of data that surpass "coincidence':
tho as Morris points out.
1.do not use #s to teach doctrine
2.Patterns are useful for apologetics.
---
similar:Analogies in Tabernacle furnishings.

89
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