John UK wrote:
Aye, this [URL=http://www.vincentcheung.com/]]]VINCENT CHEUNG[/URL] that Neil linked to earlier is a cool dude.

im still up and posting as my youngest has some friends round and they are monopolising the sitting room playing on the xbox

If he is a heretic I always find it remarkable how close to the truth a counterfeit christianity can be - im not being sarcastic here - Satan must be a knowlegable theologian tho i hate to say it as some of his products are so close to the truth but in one repect or another are fataly deceitful to the follower its horibly cunning

DJC49 wrote:
Not so.
One of God's essential attributes is His eternal Omnipresence. There will never be a place where God is "not here."

NEIL ultimate great link ! This guy has it nailed ! im printing this one of - just a few quotes i liked

God controls
everything that is and everything that happens. There is not one thing that happens that he
has not actively decreed – not even a single thought in the mind of man. Since this is true,
it follows that God has decreed the existence of evil, he has not merely permitted it, as if
anything can originate and happen apart from his will and power. Since we have shown
that no creature can make completely independent decisions, evil could never have
started without God's active decree, and it cannot continue for one moment longer apart
from God's will. God decreed evil ultimately for his own glory, although it is not
necessary to know or to state this reason to defend Christianity from the problem of evil
One who thinks that God's glory is not worth the death
and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity.

johm - yes it looks like God made Job happen to teach us

DJC49 wrote:
Both God's active AND "passive" Will are indeed His will nonetheless. BTW, *John UK*, both God's active AND passive Will get whatever He ultimately desires accomplished.

Im with you DJC it is Gods will nonetheless

i listened to don fortner this pm 'christ in Job'

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=32508189165

I well respect Dons teaching and he says if you get run down by a drunk driver 'God did it'

Although Satan was allowed to sift Job it was Gods will that he did it so from that perspective i dont think there is much point saying satan did it when it was Gods will that he did so thts like having a dog that bites and leting it run free in a schoolyard and saying 'it was the dog' nothing to do with me, clearly it was, thats how the average atheist is going to hear it.

charles m wrote:
Prince charles eh ? mmm I like that, it would be encouraging for the brethren to have royalty posting on the forum, itll mean another proclomation of course but what a refreshing change for the populace, the prince a christian and a calvinist at that !

Jessica Dawson wrote:
I have heard many Christians blaming other Christians because they don't have enough faith to be healed, or not enough faith to have riches,

Understanding this makes me more grateful to God that he has rescued me.

Many christians seem to have difficulty with judgement, i dont, ive changed sides, i dont belong to the world any more and the ways of the world arent mine,I dont believe what sinners believe any more, be ye seperate He says.

Mike wrote:
The victims were sinners, but it wasn't for the shooter to murder them. Does a sinner have the right to murder because the victims are sinners? I don't think so. Scripture says evil is not to be paid back for evil. Is your shooter exempted? It also says you shall not kill (murder)
Exodus 20:13
"Thou shalt not kill." This means you shall not murder. Period. How does this fit into your God sent him theory?

God has the right to send him doesnt he ?

Castanet wrote:
I do not agree with any of this.

i am not incriminating God i think they are his judgements and whats more i think they are good

''God is obliged to discharge justice in His creation BECAUSE of His righteousness!''

God is not obliged by anything

'The Flood = Discharge of justice upon mankind by the righteous Judge.'

Ok millions of sinners righteously judged and died

'Shooter = Sin by a murderer because he is an evil hearted sinner.There is no justice in what he did.'

so the victims were not sinners and didnt deserve to die ?

the perpetrator of the crime was 'an evil hearted sinner' obviously a freak then, not like you and me at all - phew ! im glad im not like that wicked person

God had nothing to do with this ?

IOW did the preflood sinners deserve to die but the recently deseased did not ? its a bit hard on the antedeluvians isnt it ?

I disagree on both points, We are all sinners deserving of death

God is totally sovreign and ordained their deaths

am i wrong ?
if so please explain why

also math 18 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

id like to use this but is there a danger of attributing unrighteousness to God ? This is what stops me accepting this at the moment, for instance what if a person was to say to me well ok God did not cause the offence so you say that he allows it so why does he allow it why does he not stop it ? would this person be accusing God of a sin of omission - would i then be guilty of misleading that person and teaching falsely ? since because of my teaching they are now impugning Gods righteousness ?

Mike wrote:
And unlike them, you are able to explain Him, Charles?

so if i follow your post noah was spared because of his righteousness and the world perished because of unrighteousness but there is no connection between that shall we say 'macro' judgement and the 'micro' judgement of the shooter, which is therefore you advise not a judgement at all ? I dont see how you draw the distinction between these two events or say recent earthquakes in china. I would say they were judgement - would you say that they were accidents of nature ? would the flood then not also be a similar accident of nature by that standard ?

Michael Hranek wrote:
charles m
Really?
And you have learned your theology from whom?

''15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God''

the same one that ordained The flood and sends calamities upon the earth

'21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.'

-that was scourging loss of all back muscle and skin exposing the backbone, then the beat Jesus about the face until it was unrecognisable,

'Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

Peter the self righteous blowhard who said he loved Jesus more than anyone but denied Him three times

'Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

mike i would like to go with the idea that God sovreignly 'allows ' things to happen which i agree he does in giving permision or sending a lieing spirit as its easier to explain but then we are finding 'unrighteousness in God' since he could have prevented a thing happening and did not so we are in the position of the end of my last post - it still raises questions

''where the young lady was compassionately told that it was the devil not God.''

Thats compassionate ? No, just expediency, the easy way out because who ever took it upon themselves to do this 'counselling' didnt have the answer, the best counselling of course would be to have the perpetrator publically flogged or something.

sometimes communities know who did these things or know who are likely to but dont stop them because they are afraid of the perpetrator or are related etc ive come across this before

''For that matter it might be highly appropriate to call one who would falsely attribute to God such an evil thing a devil also''

i usually catch mackrel john, they are part of the tuna family and good eating but thats in season may to august ive got a boat called a 'drascombe dabber' which is a traditional type sailing boat you can google images it is the best looking of all the boats on te beach of course ! i like to sail out and catch the fish, before i used to fish of the rocks

candleit i would have to look up the rederences but here is one
“In that day,I will break the yoke off their necks and will tear off their bonds; no longer will foreigners enslave them. Instead, they will serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them” (Jer. 30:8,9)

Jesus rules the earth and David rules Israel - why not ?

and the saints that overcome (the world) get to rule also in the millenia
teaching the Law and judging disputes etc in the manner of the elders of Moses when they were in the wilderness