Michael Hranek wrote:
WayneM
I live in an area rife with the kind of attitude you are describing across denominational lines. Please feel free to email me to discuss RC evangelism (especially for prayer, intercession and encouragement), it is one of the biggest burdens on my heart along with evangelism of so called evangelicals who are likely as lost as Roman Catholics.

"it was "liberal" politicians who pushed NAFTA which gave international corp's advantages overseas and eventually led to industry being eliminated in America."

I think you might want to re-consider that. NAFTA facilitates billions of dollars in trade between Canada and the U.S.A. every year. This is a major stimulus to both the economy of the U.S. and Canada. The idea of NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) is to reduce or eliminate protectionism between both countries. (Mexico is also in the agreement I believe)

hydraian wrote:
King James bible is old and is out dated. I use the NIV and the ESV. I love to understand what I read. And we don't talk that way any more so our bibles should not read like that any more. There are corrupt bibles but the NIV and ESV are not one of them.

http://www.trinitarianbiblesociety.org/

Michael Hranek wrote:
Wayne M
Wow! How far do you want to go with this? Would you deride sinners as being fully responsible and accountable for all their sins when you seem to be implying God is so directly in control of everything,

Would you concede that there is much teaching in Scripture that shows God is sovereign in the affairs of men and predetermines what comes to pass?

"For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." Acts 4:27,28

Michael Hranek wrote:
Or just a "robotic" elect?

Does God permit the universe to run itself as if it is an out of control aircraft or is God in control with an eternal purpose?

"According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Eph. 3:11

"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are numbered." Matt.10:29,30

Are the free acts of men both free and predestined? "Woe unto the world because offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" Matt.18:7

Are the evil (and good) actions of men predetermined and at the same time freely performed?

Do christians repent, believe, and seek to do God's will because they want to? Is this because God works in them by the Holy Spirit.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Wayne M
Are you sure about this?
Am I misstaken or are you "Reformed"?
And do not the "Reformed" essentially teach that God is completely and absolutely sovereign in and over all things arbitarily predestines and elects certain ones to salvation because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all the rest He would essentially arbitarily predestinate to the eternal hell.

The fact is all are fallen and deserving of the wrath of God. The fact He saves even some is due to the mercy and gracious character of God.

"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." Romans 9:18

Michael Hranek wrote:
Wayne M, I have to think we miss it if we portrary God as being somekind of arbitary judge who would condemn into hell those innocent of committing sin, who said "the soul that sins shall die" and I stress the committing of sin for babies are indeed born with a fallen sinful nature.

God could well be saving all infants by His grace, but as has been pointed out, it is still by God's grace and the imputed righteousness of Christ which would be applied to them.

You quote David Cloud as saying God "demands holiness and demands repentance".

Michael Hranek wrote:
Likewise I am coming to the opinion some, certainly not all but far too many reject God because He is presented to them in a quite distorted version of who He really is...

I picked up a pocket book I had last night called "The Bible on the Life Hereafter" by William Hendriksen. Opening it in the middle, I found myself looking at chapter 21 called "Are All Those who Die in Infancy Saved?" Why I would find this is amazing.

Michael Hranek wrote:
btw IMHO the way some speak of God it is if they would portrary Him as a monster deserving to be rejected and hated by men (IMHO I have to think such portrayals are from Satan, not from an hones humble study of the Word of God), rather than One who is good and ready to forgive and abounds in mercy to all who call upon Him.

Mike wrote:
"All men" includes women, therefore Jesus was not sinless merely because he had no earthly father, for Mary had the sin nature as well as Joseph.

I may have been incorrect if I said Jesus was sinless merely because he had no earthly father. He was sinless because he was the Son of God who came to earth and was without sin.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Wayne M
Conceived in sin (with a fallen sinful nature) certainly BUT have these little ones personally committed sin?

Your comment "Babies are so PERSONALLY GUILTY of committing sin God hates them and Jesus wants them burn in hell forever?" Nonsensical comment. You are trying to use emotion.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Wayne M
Thought about it?
I maintain that how some teach "original sin" impunes the character of God.

Because Adam was the Federal head of the human race, this fallen estate was passed on to all his progeny.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Rom 5:12

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Rom 5:14

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation," Rom 5:18

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Rom 3:23

"every intent of the thoughts of his heart is only evil continually" Gen 6:5

Man sins because he is corrupt and polluted in every part. (total depravity)

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 51:5

Even from conception in our mother's womb, we have a depraved, fallen nature.

Michael Hranek wrote:
My children, yours as well must personally believe in Christ to be saved.

What is that Covenant spoken of in Genesis 17? It is the Covenant God made which refers to God choosing a people for His own. It is not a matter of the right ritual being performed. Baptism is not just a ritual. It is an important sign and seal which demonstrates that someone is a child of God by faith in Jesus Christ and that they have had their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

The fact that they are infants does not exclude them from the promises of God. Do children only become christians when they reach a certain age? Do you claim that?