(i.) There is an outward call, which is nothing else but God's blessed tender of grace in the gospel, His parleying with sinners, when He invites them to come in and accept of mercy. Of this our Saviour speaks: " Many are called, but few chosen " (Matt. xx. 16). This external call is insufficient to salvation, yet sufficient to leave men without excuse.

(ii.) There is an inward call, when God wonderfully overpowers the heart, and draws the will to embrace Christ. This is, as Augustine speaks, an EFFECTUAL CALL. God, by the outward call, blows a trumpet in the ear; by the inward call, He opens the heart, as He did the heart of Lydia (Acts xvi. 14). The outward call may bring men to a profession of Christ, the inward call brings them to a possession of Christ. The outward call curbs a sinner, the inward call changes him.

2Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

But their is a solution ongoing....

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

The only people who are "struggling" with the issue of homosexuality are the tares amongst the wheat, today known as Liberals.

Throughout the Bible, Sodomites are identified as an abomination to God the author of Scripture, there is no struggle for the true Christian to perceive that obvious fact.

As Romans ch.1 illustrates those who have turned from Scripture do also worship the creature rather than the Creator.

True Bible Christians should not participate in this lost and unBiblical witness.

Mike wrote:
Evenin' Minnow.
Unfortunately, there is in the question another long-debated question. When is a sinner regenerated? I'll interpret your question to mean Joe Sinner has the indwelling Holy Spirit. So my answer would be yes, he is saved.

Britain shocked by the "morals" of its youth??? The kids just will not behave themselves???

Well what do you expect in the UK of Sodom and Gomorrah. How I wish Gordon Brown and the parents could understand what that actually means.

Romans chapter one, V18ff, adequately describes and predicts the decline of Britain whether kids or adults.

18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"

Mike wrote:
If we could but admit that the Holy Spirit may work in a sinner's heart for some time before he is convicted, we should also be able to see that this work cannot properly be called regeneration, for being regenerated IS the born-again state of the one who has new life, and is therefore saved.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Preserverance of the Saint is often presented that the "predestinated elect" will hold to a choiceless predestination of all things not that we can believe in Jesus to save us and and having saved us will keep us saved.

But please
Don't try to post info on the Doctrines of Grace/TULIP since you keep demonstrating your complete ignorance of same.

If you really are interested in them then please read

Is this proffered as great news or desperation in a time of declining Christian influence?

"The study also found that men, conservatives, older Americans, and individuals who had lower income and education levels were more likely than their counterparts to accept the Bible as holy."

Sounds about normal with history.

Mike wrote:
Ken Lynch, whom Cloud quotes in support writes: "Without conviction there can be no conversion. Without repentance, there can be no regeneration."
David Cloud writes: "repentance is a change of mind which results in a change of life"
Do you believe with Lynch that one must be convicted before conversion, and repentant before regeneration?
Do you agree with Cloud's definition of repentance?

"In the Arminian camp, the ordo salutis is 1) outward call 2) faith/election, 3) repentance, 4) regeneration, 5) justification, 6) perseverance, 7) glorification."

Now wheres my Canons of Dordt Book?

Mike wrote:
Do you say this of your own free will, Minnow?

Yes Mike, now that I've been freed by Christ from the dominion of "Total Depravity" I can use my will spiritually freed from the taint of sin.

The Pope is absolutely correct.

From the blind position of RCC heretical dogmas and views, - he wouldn't be able to perceive the True Church, from a duck billed platypus.

Indeed if the Pope could see the True Church he would have been going to the Presbyterian Reformed Church ages ago.

Contender wrote:
That is the exact reason why you should not proclaim God loves everybody because there are tares among the wheat. Rather the gospel is to be proclaimed to sinners to come unto Christ.

Enns is attacking at the roots of inerrancy.

The Lone Wolf wrote:
God commanded us to PREACH the gospel. He uses the means of preaching to carry the message to the lost to bring them to saving faith.

From the dictionary;
Complacent;;
"pleased, esp. with oneself or one's merits, advantages, situation, etc., often without awareness of some potential danger or defect; self-satisfied"

"quote"
I feel that we may be bouncing off each other to no real avail here.
If so I apologise.

My position is that the Holy Spirit is the one who will make all the difference to the converted, not simply the verbal statement of the mortal.
Telling somebody about God's love is not going to change the fact, that it is the Spirit's work to have any real effect upon ones heart - or not as the case may be.

Lloyd-Jones makes the point that a sinner must be aware of his depraved situation, - prior to the love of God, or indeed anything in the Bible, having a converting effect.
I agree with this too.

God Be with you.

quote wrote:
1] Are you insinuating that I am a hyper? Is that why you are so hostile?

2] Who suggested that?

2] In your post below 7/7/08 5:00pm
"Why do you want to make a sinner complacent in his sin by telling them that God loves them"
_____________
Finally quote, I am debating from my position which you obviously dont accept, - but still only debating. Not hostility.

_____________
Answer to yours below on evangelising Christ Crucified.
As I have already posted below God demonstrrates His love by sending His Son to die on the cross.