DefenderofTruth wrote:
Someone born of the Spirit who says, "I responded to the call of God to repent, and was saved," is not denying that God works through the Holy Spirit, or that they are dead in trepasses and sins, or that they do not need faith.

DefenderofTruth wrote:
Contender,
"Another gospel" would be one that poses as Christianity and denies the atoning work of Christ for man's sin, or would add to the work of Christ, or would deny the deity of Christ, etc

Free-will/Arminianism denies that it is God through the Holy Spirit who quickens the sinner, the sinner being dead in trespasses and sins, grants them faith and repentance, and makes them new creatures in Christ Jesus. They claim and even boast to have faith and repentance of their own free-will and cooperate with God in their salvation. It is a man-centered works religion.

DefenderofTruth wrote:
We do not share the gospel by telling people they have to submit to Calvinism. It is merely a way to sum up what we believe so that the hearer will understand where we are coming from.

DefenderofTruth wrote:
My debut to this forum has taught me not to declare a system of theology that I adhere to; rather, use Scripture to refute error...

DefenderofTruth wrote:
In difficult doctrinal matters, may we have gracious attitudes and humble hearts, desiring most of all to please Him who has called us to serve Him in the body of Christ. Discussion -YES! Disagreements -YES! Division - NO!
Seek those things that produce the loving nature of Jesus in our lives.

Herein I stand, as for me I will not tolerate nor compromise to adherants of those who pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:6-9

The Lone Wolf wrote:
Sometimes when you stand for the truth, you stand alone. John the Baptist stood alone preaching in the wilderness. Crying out the gospel in the wilderness of sin gets very lonely at times although I know the Lord is ever present.

JD wrote:
Gifts by grace are not given on conditions except the giver sets the conditions. Is repentance a condition for regeneration?.

Ephesians 2:8-10

JD wrote:
My head spins!

"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:18)

JD wrote:
I do not know about anyone else on this forum but I do know what God said about who is the object of his love and unless he modifies it from "world" to "elect", I am going to believe what he clearly said. That is, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Mike wrote:
Romans 9:13 references not salvation, but position. It references not individuals, but nations. Consider Genesis 25:23-

Election is not of works because it is of God that calls and shows mercy to whom He wills. Ephesians 2:8-10

Romans 9:16

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.�

Romans 9:18

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.�

Mike wrote:
The hate cited in Romans 9:13 is from Malachi 1:2,3, writen long after Jacob and Esau were dead. The "hate" was earned by the Edomites for their evil done to the Israelites.

Someone Against Calvinism wrote:
God made the statement that he hated Esau a long time after Esau’s death in Malachi 1:2-3 not before they were born (Jacob and Esau born, BC 1838 book of Malachi written c. 455 B.C.).

The Scriptures state, "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." (Rom 9:11-13)

The fact remains it was before Jacob and Esau were born neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand and it is He who calls and not otherwise. God's love to Jacob was salvation and God's hate to Esau was condemnation.

Paul emphasizes this point in Romans 9:16,

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. " (John 1:12,13)

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy." (Romans 9:16)

The Scriptures makes it clear that salvation is not by the will of man but of God that shows mercy, and that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and there is none that seeketh God. Based on this premise what is the difference between those that believe in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and those that don't?

Why does God condemn sinners he supposedly loves to hell? (In answering this question we must remember that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, we all justly deserve to be in hell, and that salvation is not of the will of man as stated in the Scriptures.)

JD wrote:
Yes Lurker, my guess is that Contender is a presbyterian.

Lurker wrote:
"Is it wrong to tell sinners that God loves them?"
The bible instructs us to preach the unperverted gospel to the lost. Unless someone can demonstrate that the bible clearly instructs us to tell sinners that God loves them my vote is to do so is dead wrong. It becomes an unwarranted embellishment to the gospel which can only be seen as another gospel.
There are far too many so called ordained ministers out there fleecing their flocks saying "Thus saith the Lord..." when He never spoke. These wolves are called false prophets and they will pay a heavy price for their deceptions; promising peace with God when there is no peace.
Be faithful to the great commission, grant to God that which is in His power alone (the increase) and if it so be His will; He will spread His love by way of the Holy Spirit into the hearts of the hearers of the gospel and they will know of a certainty that God loved them and called them by His gospel even when they had no time for Him.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Contender
God does hates the workers of iniquity. Why? Because He has predestinated them only to His hatred or because they have sinned against Him without excuse? And if they have sinned against Him without excuse why is that? Because He has loved them, and that love is still there if only they would repent and return to Him, but if they will not repent they will never experience it only His wrath.

The dialogue you imagined between preacher and sinner is not how I would present the gospel in love to the sinner. Here is my rendition:

Preacher: Sinner flee from the wrath of God, repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sinner 1: [Sinner 1 mocks preacher in unbelief] Flee? The wrath of God? There is no God. I will live the way I want to. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Sinner 2: [Sinner 2 is offended by the truth] I am not a sinner, I do as my religion says and I am a good person. God loves everybody so why would he send me to hell anyways?

Sinner 3: [The Holy Spirit awakens the sinner to his condition upon hearing the preached Word and Sinner 3 is born again] Oh God, have mercy upon me a sinner. Preacher, what must I do to be saved?

Preacher: Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said, “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (Matthew 11:28,29)

Sinner 3: I want to come unto Jesus and learn of Him.

Michael Hranek wrote:
However I can see in the context of the whole of Scripture telling "Pharisees" (and ordinary sinners as well) that God has loved them and has given them so much and they have wickedly sinned against Him without excuse and have outrageously offended Him and in the evil they have done His wrath abides on them...

Are you saying that God loves the workers of iniquity, when the Bible says that God hates the workers of iniquity?

"...thou hatest all workers of iniquity." (Psalm 5:5)

You continue to deny the plain truths of Scripture.

In Romans 5:8 Paul describes the sinner, whom God commendeth his love to the elect believers in Rome,in that, while they were yet sinners, Christ died for them.

I know that because Paul inspired of the Holy Spirit addressed his epistle to the believers in Rome.

Romans 1:6,7

pew view wrote:
Witness - "Without love" -

No one has stated to witness without love. The believer in Christ is to witness to a lost world in love, however that being said, God does not love everyone.

AW Pink in his book entitled "The Sovereignty of God" chapter 11 also states,