J4J I would agree with you..that is all it says. Any reformed person who says "well God does the saving, I will just sit on my hands", obviously knows nothing of the great commission. What we are discussing with you is pure grace. The total inability of mankind to have anything whatsoever to do with their salvation..you must believe that a man can lose their salvation, because man had something to do with his salvation. Am I right in assuming that?
J4J you talk about God bestowing unconscious faith on people..it's more like God bestows a living faith on unconscious PEOPLE!! It is not just that verse my friend. In fact the belief that you have concerning salvation is relatively new..most Bible believing Christians were Calvinistic until probably the last 100 years. Including by the way one CH Spurgeon...
That's funny because I really believe that the God hates people group misunderstands faith big time. They don't understand if someone believes and that belief results in salvation, then how is that not a meritorious work? Therefore, people have supposed that because faith is obviously a work (which it isn't!) then God must be the one who performs it. Can a dead man excersize faith? You must believe that they can. Why must a man be born again? It must be a very important principle because Jesus mentions it twice in 3 verses. Why MUST it happen? Is it because you are DEAD in your trespasses and sins? Do a little study on salvation and see how many times the bible talks about Gods salvation, his salvation etc...if it is his salvation how dare we believe that we contribute a thing?
I know you love The Lord. You seem to have a great zeal for Him. I just don't think you truly understand Grace so I think you should pray about these things..if God is faithful, and he is, then He will reveal his character to you.
For the purpose of Eph 2:8-9 John 3:16 gal 2:20 ..not only are you saved by it you are sanctified by it..in fact take a look at acts 26:18 it is in red letters. What does Jesus do? Open their eyes..turn them from darkness to light...forgive them..and set them apart for his use. It's all him man!!
If you agree to being dead, how does a dead man respond to the grace of God. Doesn't God need to make you alive? Your last point tells me all..to be dead is,to be alienated from God. So doesn't God have to do a work in the heart of a dead man in order for that man to come to life? That's what he does for his elect. He drags them to the foot of the cross literally. I say this on the basis of John 6:44..no man can come to me except the father draw him. And I will raise him up on the last day. The word draw is NOT some cute little word, like when we coax a little kitten to come to us. It's also used in Acts 16:19 when Paul and Silas are imprisoned they aren't coaxed into the marketplace..they are dragged. That is the language Jesus is using to describe the man or woman who is dead...they need to be dragged by God. Then you will be regenerated. Then you will have the ability (totally by grace) to have the faith to put in Jesus.
John for Jesus- I will leave you be after this..my whole thing in terms of salvation is that it is a reflection of the character of God. God takes people who left to their own merits would go to hell. And he regenerates them..why does he do this? More importantly when does he do this? Please answer for me. I'm not picking on you because I used to have the same beliefs in terms of salvation. I'm beating a dead horse with Eph 2 but it's important..were you dead? YES! What does that mean? He was talking to believers right..they were dead. How did they become alive. Seek God,in this because it truly transforms not only how you read the Scriptures but also evangelism, prayer etc..please respond. Thank you
11/25/16 10:53 PM
