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USER COMMENTS BY PRESBY |
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Page 1 | Page 3 · Found: 257 user comments posted recently. |
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1/26/12 12:16 PM |
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TESTIMONY of Dr C Matthew McMahon who was a Baptist for 15 years - THEN saw the light in Scripture and changed to Covenant Infant baptism. [URL=http://www.apuritansmind.com/covenant-theology/my-retraction-a-15-year-baptist-turns-paedobaptist-and-becomes-reformed-by-dr-c-matthew-mcmahon/]]]TESTIMONY of Dr McMahon[/URL] __________ Quote from above; "If you think the New Covenant is coextensive with salvation, you will always wind up Baptistic. This is probably the most serious error in trying to understand the arguments here. Every covenant in the Bible, from Adam forward, included unbelievers. The New Covenant, in this respect, is no different. That is why Christ can promise salvation and damnation in the same breath to those in the New Covenant. (1 Cor. 11, Heb. 6 and 10). Until the Baptist comes to grips with this, there is no way for him to understand Covenant Theology because he radically transforms the nature of Godâs covenant when he deals with the New Testament. The substance of the Covenant of Grace changes, which makes the Baptist, inescapably, Dispensational." (Dr C Matthew McMahon) |
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1/26/12 11:23 AM |
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Sermons Here on SermonAudio:- Which teach the Biblical presbyterian facts of covenant/infant baptism.Covenant Infant Baptism[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=51902152443]]]Unto you and your children.[/URL] [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=822091939540]]]Covenant Baptism[/URL] [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=103106163813]]]The Covenant of Baptism[/URL] [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=102906143934]]]New Covenant Baptism replaces Old Covenant Circumcision[/URL] "The truth of Godâs promises is not confirmed if the sign and seal of them be denied; for that whereon they believed that God was a God unto their seed as well as unto themselves was this, that he granted the token of the covenant unto their seed as well as unto themselves. If this be taken away by Christ, their faith is overthrown, and the promise itself is not confirmed but weakened, as to the virtue it hath to beget faith and obedience." [URL=http://www.covenantofgrace.com/owen_infant_baptism.htm]]]Infant Baptism by John Owen[/URL] |
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1/25/12 3:51 PM |
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It is without doubt that history demonstrates that the Presbyterian form of baptism (of infants) is Scriptural from first to last. All the great theologians eg; John Calvin, John Owen and the Puritans, Turretin, Ames, Dabney, Hodge, Berkhof, Edwards, Perkins, Love, and many more, clearly present the Presbyterian form of baptism as a Biblical fact. The "truth" was with them in their time and carries on today in the Presbyterian church.The problem that our Baptist cousins present is the discontinuity of the WHOLE counsel of God, which they present in their selective OT verse removal to support their ideology. BUT Christ stated Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." |
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1/25/12 3:16 PM |
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Circumcision was changed to baptism as the sign and seal of the same Covenant.(Credit to John Sartelle in his booklet "Baptism", P.l0) "When a person believed God in the Old Testament, what happened? Answer: He was circumcised. What was the outward event representing the clean heart in the Old Testament? Answer: Circumcision. What was the outward sign that marked entry into the community of believers in the Old Testament? Answer: Circumcision. Now replace the words "Old Testament" with "New Testament", asking the same questions: When a person believed God in the New Testament, what "happened? Answer: He was baptized. What was the outward event representing the clean heart in the New Testament? Answer: Baptism What was the outward sign that marked a person's entry into the community of believers in the New Testament? Answer: Baptism." |
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1/25/12 2:45 PM |
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Circumcision was changed to baptism as the sign and seal of the Covenant, as the Bible teaches.A. Both are taught as initiations into the SAME Covenant: 1. Cir.: Ge.17:7, l0-11; "Ro.4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also" 2. Bap.: Mt. 28:19-20; Acts 2:38-39; "38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" Acts 10:47,48 B. Both are significant of conversion and putting away of sin. 1. Cir.: Deut. l0:16; 30:6; Jer.4:4; 9:25-26; Ez.44:7,9; Ro.2:28-29 2. Bap.: Acts 2:38-39; 22:16; Col. 2:11; Ga. 3:27, 29; I Pe. 3:21; Ti.3:5-6 C. Both are outward expressions of inward righteousness. 1. Cir.: Ro.4:11 2. Bap.: Mt.3:13-17; Acts 22:16 D. Note Circumcision was viewed as spiritual in meaning: Deut.10:16; 30:6; Jer.4:4; 9:25-26; Acts l5:1; Ro.2:26-29; Col. 2:11-12. |
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1/25/12 12:14 PM |
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"Among all the recorded instances of Baptism performed by John the Baptist and the apostles, there is not one in which immersion is asserted, while there are many in which it was highly improbable -- (a.) Because the apostles baptizing and the early converts baptized were all Jews, accustomed to purify by pouring and sprinkling. (b.) Because of the vast multitudes baptized at one time, and the known scarcity of water in Jerusalem and generally in the situations spoken of. The eunuch was baptized on the roadside in a desert country. Acts viii. 26 -- 39. Three thousand were baptized in one day in the dry city of Jerusalem, which depends upon rain-water stored in tanks and cisterns. Acts ii. 37 -- 41. Vast multitudes swarmed to John. Matt. iii. 5, 6. The jailer was baptized in prison at midnight Acts xvi. 25 -- 33. Paul was baptized by Ananias right at his bedside. Ananias said, " Standing up, be baptized;" and " standing up he was baptized." Acts ix. 18; xxii. 16. (c.) The earliest pictorial representations of baptism, dating from the second or third century, all indicate that the manner of applying the water to the body of the baptized was by pouring. (d.) It is done in the same way universally by Eastern Christians at the present time." (A.A.Hodge) |
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1/25/12 11:29 AM |
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Obsterver wrote: Dr Walls says of England: "The offices and liturgies did all along enjoin dipping, without any mention of pouring or sprinkling." About 1550, it began to prevail, being used first in the case of " weak children ;" and "within the space of half a century, from 1550 to 1600, prevailed to be the more general." The English churches finally came to imitate the Genevan, and casting off the domination of the Pope, bowed to the authority of Calvin and adopted pouring instead of dipping.Calvin, who was not a thorough going reformer, was the first to include sprinkling in a church liturgy NOT TRUE!All you have to do to prove this wrong is to look at the early church ancient mosaics. "A picture is worth a thousand words." For example in the Catacombs. Baptism is depicted with the candidate standing in water BUT A VESSEL BEING USED TO POUR WATER OVER THEM. These mosaics date back to the early centuries just after New Testament times. Baptists rewriting history to suit their ideologies yet again. |
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1/23/12 5:15 PM |
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John UK wrote: And after the apostolic age I know John. It's so sad for you poor Baptists to accept that you and your ideologies were not invented until the 16th century. But you and Observer can just keep believing in the baptist rewrites of history and even pretend that deep water washing was as necessary as the Arminian verbal authentication of your ceremony. The fact that we Presbyterians can track our Biblical Theological and historically factual ecclesiastical journey which originates in Apostolic times - in other words John, yes New Testament mode and method carried on. Struggle as you might with baptistical hypothesis and conjectural facts, one fact is crystal clear that your denomination and its ideologies started in 1521 - and not before. But don't be sad John just because you devised a church on the basis of ONE definition of baptizw rather than accepting all. Don't be sad because you have to exclude (reinterpret) the Old Testament to achieve your discrimination by age. Don't be sad that your subsequent consequential theory must rely upon a works based ideology to promote its acceptance. Just remember that Presbyterianism was here first and is more historically realistic. Thats all John. |
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1/23/12 3:22 PM |
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PRESBYTERIANISM The Biblical Church."The Church, during the apostolic age, did not consist of isolated, independent congregations, but was one body, of which the separate churches were constituent members, each subject to all the rest, or to an authority which extended over all. This appears, in the first place, from the history of the origin of those churches. The apostles were commanded to remain in Jerusalem until they received power from on high. On the day of Pentecost the promised Spirit was poured out, and they began to speak as the Spirit gave them utterance. Many thousands in that city were added to the Lord, and they continued in the apostlesâ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread and prayer. They constituted the Church in Jerusalem. It was one not only spiritually, but externally, united in the same worship, and subject to the same rulers. When scattered abroad, they preached the word everywhere, and great multitudes were added to the Church. The believers in every place were associated in separate, but not independent churches, for they all remained subject to a common tribunal." [URL=http://www.reformationfiles.com/files/displaytext.php?file=hodge_presbyterianism.html]]]Presbyterianism[/URL] (Charles Hodge) |
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1/20/12 12:51 PM |
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Observer wrote: John, even if Presby had an answer, would you trust it, seeing his knowledge of the scriptures and history is woefully inadequate? His answer that the Presby church had researched matters brought a smile to my face. Isnt that what the RCC says? Since he posted a quote from Scotty Clark, I googled him and have been reading more from him. All I have to say is And he's a Presby Prof? I suppose you two are an example of the type of Christian brotherly love available from the Baptist denomination.1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. May God be with you! |
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1/19/12 2:24 PM |
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Mike wrote: I doubt "Exegesist" is Presby. Unless he changed his fingerprints. Nuh Mike, you're right. Anyway I know how to spell "exegesis" or "exegetist" |
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1/18/12 2:38 PM |
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Neil wrote: I have never heard of Presbys using anything more than a palmful of water. Less messy perhaps, but not Biblical, since baptism is supposed to symbolize the washing of regeneration, yet no one considers a palmful of water sufficient to wash even the hands, let alone the whole body Ah but Neil; The question is, How much water do you require to be a 'sign'??One could say that the communion bread is a kind of 'sign' of the flesh of Christ. But you don't eat a six foot loaf of bread? Or do you in the Baptist church. As for "washing" the whole body - remember what Peter said... 1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" So the 'washing' is figurative language in this sense. As in... Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" BTW Is it the soul or the flesh which is "washed"?? |
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1/18/12 11:45 AM |
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Lurker wrote: Slippery Hello Lurker, still alive I see. Instruction for Baptists... "The connection between baptism and circumcision is quite clear in Colossians 2:11-12. The connection is not direct, but indirect and the point of contact between them is Christ and baptism is the sign and seal of that circumcision. In v.11 Paul says "in him [i.e. in Christ] you were also circumcised with the circumcision done by Christ" and in v.12 he says exactly how it is that we were circumcised in and by Christ: "having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith...." For Paul, in the New covenant, our union with Christ is our circumcision. In baptism, we are identified with Christ's baptism/circumcision, as it were, on the cross. Neither baptism nor circumcision effects this union (ex opere operato), rather God the Spirit unites us to Christ, makes us alive and gives us faith. The point not to be missed is that, in Paul's mind, baptism and circumcision are both signs and seals of Christ's baptism/circumcision on the cross for us. By faith, we are united to Christ's circumcision and by union with Christ we become participants in his circumcision/baptism." (Prof. R.Scott Clark) |
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1/18/12 9:43 AM |
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John UK wrote: I tell you that unless a sinner repents, he will perish. You respond with, "A sinner cannot repent." Hey John; Don't forget the Ordo Salutis...In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30) In the Arminian camp, the ordo salutis is 1) outward call 2) faith/election, 3) repentance, 4) regeneration, 5) justification, 6) perseverance, 7) glorification. Now I can see you have pitched your tent in the Arminian camp. __________ Neil wrote: you merely stated "Yes we baptise adults who are not covered by a Parental covenant No! I also said you *DO* something else. - Quote; "your "QUALIFYING EMPHASIS" (spoken ability of sinner) discriminates against the Covenanted believers children"This active discrimination of itself makes a point, viz your reliance upon the human capacity to grow to an age to offer a verbal conclusion, (confession). _________ Observer wrote: Have you ever done any original research yourself? Yes! And so has the Presbyterian Church. |
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