John for JESUS wrote:
You are saying the first time God brought Israel out was in Egypt and the second time was in Egypt and Assyria.

John for JESUS wrote:
Because they were scattered abroad, not just in Egypt. So regathering some out of Egypt would be different than all of them exodusing out of Egypt together.

My point is that "the second time" is referring to the Lord setting His hand...

1ST Time was in Egypt.

Ex 13:3
And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place:

Second time was in Egypt/Assyria etc. to deliver the remnant.

Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time....

John for JESUS wrote:
JT...
I’m concerned with the remnant. It would appear Israel is referred to that only after they were driven out of the Promised Land.

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time...

Zech 10:10 I will bring them **again**also out of the land of Egypt**, and gather them out of Assyria...

Is it possible that the "second time" reference and the "again" refers to simply the Lord setting His hand yet a second time in the land of Egypt to bring them out yet again?

I believe it is.

In looking through the prophets regarding Egypt, I came across yet another example of the very same narrative that Isaiah 11::11 speaks of in addition to our original one of Deut. 30:1-3.

Zech 10:10 I will bring them **again also out of the land of Egypt**, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.

Compare that to this one.

Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

John for JESUS wrote:
I’ll have to do more research as to when they first became a official nation.

I'm open to any scriptural examples you can find of them not being a people before Egypt.

John for JESUS wrote:
When God pulled Israel out of Egypt, He created the nation then. It wasn’t a regathering.

First off, where in Scripture can you say that narrative is written?

Secondly, Those that were delivered from Egypt were God's people before going into to Egypt. Here is one narrative which very specifically says that Israel came into Egypt so therefore they were a people(nation) before entering.

Psalm 105:23 **Israel also came into Egypt**; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.

24And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.

25He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.

John for JESUS wrote:
We can establish that is what you believe. I’m kind of thinking the first regathering was after the Babylonian exile, but I don’t know if it really matters for what you are wanting to show me.

And yes....it would matter.

John for JESUS wrote:
Okay, I follow you. You’re saying the first regathering is from Egypt and the second one is future?

Establishing when will be the next stop.

John for JESUS wrote:
I question whether Egypt would have been considered the first time or when they were brought out of Babylon.

Ex 13:3
And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place:

I did take a look to see what Matthew Henry
Had to say and he agrees. Here is his short quote on Isaiah 11:11.

This is said to be a recovery of them the second time (v. 11), such an instance of the power and goodness of God, and such a reviving to them, as their first deliverance out of Egypt was.

John for JESUS wrote:
God will recover the remnant of His people a second time. I question whether Egypt would have been considered the first time or when they were brought out of Babylon.

Unfortunately, I'm out of time to discuss anymore this evening but hopefully I will be able to further comment tomorrow.
If we can agree on Isaiah 11 and work through your question, that will be where the rubber prayerfully hits the road on all this.

John for JESUS wrote:
Yes

Now, since we are in agreement on what the context and timeline of which Deut. 30:6 is spoken, permit me to share with you where that same exact prophecy of the Lord recovering the remnant a second time is spoken of elsewhere.

Isa 11:11
the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

John for JESUS wrote:
God cast them out of the Promise Land, correct? I’m curious what this has to do with Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, or Irresistible Grace. Please enlighten me!

You are correct....it was the promised land God had cast them out of.

John for JESUS wrote:
Yes, after the Exodus and before entering the Promised Land.

Deut 29:25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:

26For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

27And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
28And the LORD **rooted them out of their land**in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

John for JESUS wrote:
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:1-3‬

So God says if they turn and obey, He will then do such and such. They must obey first. This isn’t about salvation though, it is about returning to the land.

Deut. 29 is the beginning of the narrative which involves Deut 30:1-3....and we see that narrative speaks of the Egyptian captivity which God took them out of right?
So would you agree that as being a past event in the narrative?

John for JESUS wrote:
they first obey Him.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If you go to 2 Cor 3, Paul does teach us about what the terms "in the spirit" and "in the letter" means. In short, its life and death.

So per your understanding the first obey part is the first move on a sinners part. Will you show me where that is in this narrative, which if I'm not mistaken, is during the same timeline as what is spoken in the context of Deut. 30:6?

Ezekiel 36
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and **ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.**

I've indicated what I see as the answer with **. And is validated here by Johns 1st letter.

John for JESUS wrote:
Let’s look at the context:
“And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:1-2‬
It is only after the Jews return unto the Lord their God and obeys what He commanded them with all their heart and soul, does God then empower them to carry it through!

John for JESUS wrote:
Sinners cannot save themselves. However, there is something *they can do* to become saved. Repent and believe!

J4J, here is one of the clearest pictures that nixes what has been at the crux of your argument.

Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

The Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart.

Lurker wrote:
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith...

Both grace and faith are feminine nouns. "That" is a pronoun and refers to a noun. "Saved" is a verb so "that" can't refer to it.

Furthermore, "that" is a gift which gift is a neuter noun.
And finally, "that" in not of works.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Seems to me that Paul provided the exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-9 right there for anyone willing to connect the dots.

Faith is not of works. Faith is a gift. Faith is righteousness. Faith justifies. Faith is life. Faith fulfills the second law covenant of Deuteronomy 28-29.

Faith enables the possessor thereof to "love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." (Deut 6:5) and live.

Interestingly enough Paul spoke about himself in two places on how he was enabled **to be faithful.**

1 Tim 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

Lurker wrote:
James

Regarding faith as a gift, you're right; it's not found as a named gift but indirectly it is:

I think the controversy comes from seeing different gifts in scripture rather than seeking the one gift from which all proceed; grace:

1 Tim 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with **faith and love** which is in Christ Jesus.

Faith loves God (Deut 6:5) and love loves the brethren (Lev 19:18) thus fulfilling the great commandments which is life (Luke 10:25-28) and both are in Christ, full of grace and truth.

Why not do a search for the terms grace and gift when used in conjunction?

Here's one of them where grace is the gift.

1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.