Luke 16:22-24 KJV
(22)  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23)  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24)  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Uncle Sam wrote:
32 Amen's!

There are some odd characters on this forum, especially the IFB elders (old codgers) who wear black and hate the very thought of the sovereignty of God, election and predestination and particular redemption.

Don’t let them intimidate or irritate you into dropping out. If you have something to say, say it, and phooey on Job’s miserable comforters.

Ahem......

cv wrote:
You will be vaccinated!!

Frank wrote:
Amen brother and I don't wish the wrath of God on anyone, but it will indeed happen.

Adriel wrote:
Ooohh John, That's a tough one!
"Yet to occur"???
How about they are occurring today as much as they can be observed as occurring before in mankind's history?

Frank wrote:
Brother John,
Thanks for clarifying things for me. The below are some of my thoughts.
The harlot is referred to as a woman and also as mystery Babylon. There is a geographical reference that indicates this “woman” likely represents the city of Rome. Rome, when speaking of religion, has throughout history been a reference to the Catholic Church. The city on 7 hills.
...
This has to be a worldwide movement and that doesn't fit Israel's influence.

Bro US's comment was in another thread, where he was answering James. He said,

"Without addressing the verse in 2 Peter 1 I would say that for you to say the whore in Revelation is the same as God’s description of Israel is your own private interpretation. I would say if any O.T. passage fits what is in Revelation it would be Isaiah 47 (which you have cited) which talks about the Chaldeans. Much of the language is similar. The Bible is one revelation from God and is of necessity intertwined in many parts but that does not mean the mention of certain words or phrases, unless specifically specified, must relate to the New Testament from the Old or vice-versa. For instance I believe it would out of place for me to say the whore in Revelation must refer to Tamar because she played the harlot. They are unrelated."

Frank wrote:
Reminds me a little of the holocaust. Many thought the murder of the Jews was okay, but selling their teeth, hair and skin was monstrous.
If these murderers don’t repent and throw themselves at the mercy of the cross, they will pay in full.

In verse 7 we see the sovereign purposes of God which no man can argue with.

As for the beast and the dragon, have you reached a conclusion as to who or what these things might be? I am still pondering your belief that the 'great whore' is the RCC, and Bro US's astute statement that just because certain things are mentioned in the OT, it does not necessarily mean that similar mentions in the NT point to them being the same, or even a fulfilment of prophecy (with an example given).

Also bro, do you believe these things in the chapter are yet to occur in the history of the world, or have already happened?

Adriel bro, you might like to answer also the last question, or even more, if you have a mind to.

The Quiet Christian wrote:
Can certainly appreciate your attempts, Brother John. I am often reminded of the difficulty of our lives in this earthy tabernacle that all of us will someday put off for immortality.
I've found that keeping the long view in mind has helped my mood and outlook. When I was in the Service, I used to deploy. Going out was exciting but after about three days, I was ready to head home...with a long time yet to go before making it home again. Life to me is one long deployment. At the end, we get to return to a home port we have have never known or been before.

The Quiet Christian wrote:
The reality of this world is one of brokenness, death, and spoiled lives. Yet not forever. The Lord will avenge His people in His way and in His time. He may have chosen to take the punishment upon Himself as He has with us. He may have them set aside for a particular lake of fire. They may enjoy the minutes they have on this earth as the best they will ever get in eternity, or He may start their Hell here in certain ways. Glad that's not my decision.

I praise God that the Lord Jesus Christ undertook to be a federal head for all that would trust in him, and secured their salvation by his shed blood at Calvary.

Lurker wrote:
I've studied the Revelation extensively and am convinced we will not understand it aright until the last day. For example:
Rev 10:10-11 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
How is the apostle John going to "prophesy again" if he died shortly after he penned the Revelation? And when did he prophesy prior to the Revelation?
Just saying.

A clue might have been the persecution and killing of God's servants (OT prophets or NT Christians). The Jews themselves were certainly guilty of that both in the OT and the first century NT. However, the RCC surely killed far greater numbers throughout history; indeed, they must take the numero uno spot for offences against God's people. So if any particular group were to take the name 'great whore', the RCC must be a strong contender.

1517 wrote:
Happy Reformation Day!
Praise God for His Reformers and champions of the Biblical faith.
Christ
Faith
Scripture
Grace
Glory to God
ALONE!!!

Without you, the day might well have passed without a single comment, while Christmas and Easter and Superbowl will attract dozens of posts.

Frank wrote:
Brother John,
Glad to see you posting again. My position is that the RCC is the great whore, but it is what you and I refer to as a secondary issue. IOW, the great whore will become known one day and then we will know. Having the correct viewpoint doesn’t affect us at all in the present. It appears that some of our posters make it a primary issue which doesn’t surprise me. Hate is impossible to control. If the RCC is the great whore, they are evil. If they are not the great whore, they are evil; so ….

James, you may like to take note of Frank's reply. And see if you can match it. Here it is:-

"The whore is the RCC".

Now of course we could go a little deeper, and say, "It is all Roman Catholics, all adherents, all who attend the blasphemous mass". All of these will come under judgment.

The Quiet Christian wrote:
Inviting question for the Lord's Day, Brother John. Thank you for engaging in profitable conversation.
My answer, sir: As I believe we know enough of what the Lord thinks about such regimes from His word, I hope such knowledge would not change our doctrines, at least the ones we *say* we believe. Perhaps considering how the Lord views sin would help us to deeper repentance of our own sin and a better marrying of our spoken doctrine and outward behavior (or "coversation" from Old English).

I still puzzle about imprecatory praying, and as I believe with Spurgeon concerning particular redemption, I could not fail to believe it possible that some of the leaders in NK who are committing atrocities, were actually redeemed at Calvary, and they just have not come to know that yet, but in the providence of God, they will do so.

And then there are those who believe that God so loves this world (meaning all men), yet who would not hesitate to drop a nuke on NK, thereby killing a huge number of people whom God loves, for he loves everyone. They say.

The Quiet Christian wrote:
Brother John, it is a pleasure to see you back!
I take a slightly different take on the situation. That my brothers- and sisters-in-Christ are being abused and murdered bothers me. The interconnectiveness of believers makes that happen. And it is worth trying to do something about, even if that is just asking the Lord for help for them and deeper faith and wisdom for me.
However, they certainly have gained in their losses as you so aptly described. The Lord Himself will avenge them as well.

Not wishing for you to imagine I be cold and indifferent to the suffering of others, please know that I always try to avoid much of the sadnesses of this world, which are now freely available to the media and social contacting, and global newsrooms etc. I find that if I take too much of an interest in all these things, it gets me down, and the devil is aware of my inability to see suffering, affecting me as it does. Since I began looking on all things in a positive way, I have maintained Christian joy and never been depressed.

Here is the verse, and I am looking for:

1. When does (or did) this judgment happen?
2. To whom does (or did) it happen (and please be very specific as to who the 'great whore' is picturing)?
3. How did (or does) the 'great whore' corrupt the earth with her fornication?
4. When did (or will) the 'great whore' shed the blood of God's servants?

I do not have any answer for all four, so please believe me that I am not being deceptive, but rather looking to learn. Thank you.

Revelation 19:2 KJV
(2)  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Don't worry if you can't answer. It will not affect me if I never understand this text of scripture.

James Thomas wrote:
Hi John,
I hope all is well with you and I appreciate the question. The short and sweet answer is I simply follow the prophets and believe what they say on the matter.

Let me see if I can decipher your interpretation. I am looking for an answer to the question, "who is this great whore" in:-

Revelation 19:2 KJV
(2)  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Your answer is Isaiah 1:21, which is God's declaration on Zion, or Jerusalem for playing the harlot (whore). The word whore ties it to the Rev passages? So we are not looking for a 'woman', but a 'city'? Or is the 'city' another picture language for something else, say people? Upon whom did (or will) God's vengeance fall?