B. McCausland wrote: Unfortunally, QC and Unprofitable, it appears... regretfully that some cannot leave a discussion without resorting to undercovered personal insult.
I am not sure what undercover personal insult I departed the discussion with. You (and please correct me if I am wrong)have more than once stated that quotes shared in this thread that don't match your thinking were unreliable basically just because you said it was. That, sister, is nothing more than your opinion, to which you are entitled. My comment was not intended as an "undercover insult" but a statement of summary of your posts. My apologies if it came across as an insult.
Thanks for your thoughts B Mac. It appears that anything that goes against your thinking is not a valid source. The internet is a pretty good resource last I knew and the link wasnâ€™t mine Still appreciate you and your posts. Have a good day
John UK wrote: On the other hand, it does involve breaking God's law if you kill someone.
The 6th commandment clearly involves the act of murder not the act of self-defense. Our Lord even told His disciples to have swords, they weren't used to roast marshmallows on an open fire. You have no indication at all in the story that the gunman was persecuting people for their faith. Your just wrong on this my brother, not going waste time on debating you.
Once again (see TMC link well researched and documented) we have ample proof that Christmas is not a "Christianized" pagan celebration of our Lord's birth. Both it and the date(more later) are not pagan in their origin. Yet we have brethren taking unwittingly what is misleading and inaccurate and using it to admonish us. It is the *truth" that should be spoken in love.
The date is obviously unknown and not even important, the event (which is NOT brought front and center except for this time of year) is of GREAT importance (which I showed earlier from Scripture.)Even when we celebrate another's birthday it is the event not the day that is important.
The reality of God's great condescension in our Lord's Incarnation should be a daily cause of celebration, thanksgiving, and worship. It is NOT a nothing to see here event. Obviously nothing else would have occured in the life of Christ without it.
Paul not only said God forbid that I should glory save in the cross, he also said I will glory in mine infirmities, that those saved under his ministry (ye are our glory) and the Christian actions of them (see II Cor 8&9) were cause for glorying.
â€śThere is a myth circulating that Christmas was originally a pagan holiday. Some claim it was proclaimed by Constantine to be on or around the winter solstice in order to placate the pagans and borrow their celebration. Some claim it was borrowed from the pagan Sol Invictus festival. None of these are true, and I can prove it with a single piece of evidence.
â€śHere is a quote from Hippolytus of Rome in his commentary on Daniel, written around 202 AD:
â€śFor the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.â€ť
â€śHere we have a claim from the very beginning of the third century that Christ was born on December 25th. This may or may not be the real date of Christâ€™s birth. But we do know that Christians were claiming this day as the date Christ was born at least as early as 202 AD.
â€śThe festival of Sol Invictus began in 274 AD, some 72 years later. Thus, if there were any borrowing going on, the pagans stole the date from the Christians, not the other way around.
1517 wrote: Premillennialism is a rather new â€śdoctrineâ€ť.
One of the many quotes from the article
"RIGHT-MINDED CHRISTIANS...ARE ASSURED THAT THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, AND A THOUSAND YEARS IN JERUSALEM, WHICH WILL THEN BE BUILT ADORNED, AND ENLARGED, AS THE PROPHETS EZEKIEL AND ISAIAH AND OTHERS DECLARE." -- JUSTIN MARTYR (100-165 A.D.)
Philip Schaff, the dean of American church historians and himself a postrnillennialist, provided the following summary of the early church's view of the millennium: "The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgment. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius."
Even the Monergism website references, why the early church fathers finally rejected Premillennialism.
So to say that it is a relatively new position is not accurate.
s c wrote: I posted this here around 6am est but ..I'll try again,,didn't show up ..still getting through with very naturally limited resources,,which is a miracle..still needing God to get me through these next 4 days especially
By God's grace will be spending time praying for you and I hope all the faithful here on SA will do the same. Thankfull our Lord is a very present help in time of trouble.
Tommy: I know that there is ample proof that humans remember significant events on the day they occurred (like 9-11), so the Shepherds probably remember His birth the rest of their years and Jesus mom would have made note of His birthday every year because that is what moms do.Â Â Plus all New Testament writers who would have been Apostles and early church leaders, they actually saw the significance of Christ birth decades after it happened!
Dr. Tim:Â Â Thatâ€™s right Tommy, there is no insignificant part of the life of our Lord, his birth, his presentation at the Temple, His staying behind at Jerusalem, His ministry, His message, His miracles, His suffering, His death, His resurrection, His high Priestly office and all are very important! We should thank Gid daily for the Incarnation and not be dissuaded by what the world does or does not do
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratahâ€¦out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel
Julie:Â Â But wait, Dr. Tim that doesnâ€™t talk about his birth
Dr. Tim: Ah but Julie, if we read in Matthewâ€™s gospel that wise men came to Herod asking, Where is he that wasÂ Â born. King of the jews, and the chief priest and wise men quote the verse found in Micah and when they were debating about whether or not Jesus was the Christ in John 7 they tied the verse in Micah to he birth.
Dr. Tim continued
The message of the angel to the Shepherds was said not to be to them alone but to all people
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord,
The angel talking with Joseph about the birth of Christ told him
Matthew 1:21 and she shall bring forth a Son and thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin
In fact the story of His birth in our Bible consumes 2 chapters in Matthew and 3 in Luke, it is no small event!
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
Susie:Â Â That happened at the time of His birth right Dr. Tim?
Welcome to Dr. Timâ€™s class, today will discuss the birth of Lord Jesus Christ.
Johnny: Dr. Tim, Dr. Tim, my Muslim friend says there was no virgin birth.
Dr. Tim: Unfortunately he is denying the doctrine of the virgin birth, not the narrative of the virgin birth. Susie: Why are we talking about this now?
Dr. Tim: Well some well meaning Christians say this is just part of a narrative, or it doesnâ€™t matter, or its significance was a one time event and probably didnâ€™t happen during this time of year. They may be correct the date is unknown but the only time they discuss it is during the so called Christmas season, they donâ€™t glory in it on other days so as to disassociate with the â€śpaganâ€ť holiday, they only bring it up to during the time of year in which both in the secular and sacred world there is focus in on it.
George: Are there verses in the Bible that emphasizes His birth, God leaving heaven to become a citizen of Earth seems like a big deal?
Dr. Tim: Good question George, let us see.
Isaiah 7:14 says a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given
John UK wrote: "always room for improvement". Bro, in my country I have been around churches long enough to know that the church - which is the people - remain the same from year to year. To my mind, that means they are saying, "I am fine, all my doctrine is fine....." Nothing ever changes. Well of course, if you are already perfect, nothing needs to change. But it seems you are like me, and see a great need of improvement, of an increase in holiness, of greater separation, of deeper sacrifice, of higher levels of worship, of better submission to the will of God, of a total submission to the word of God. Well, let's take the last one, total submission to the word of God. Let's apply it to this day - December 25th - and ask how it is that so many Christians make a lot of this day without any biblical warrant, none whatsoever, zilch, zip, naught, nothing, zero. Room for improvement there, eh?
Just another day to worship the Lord and all that He is. Another day to thank Him for His undeserved mercy and grace and for all He has done, including leaving the glories of heaven and taking on flesh!
John UK wrote: Brother, I have great rejoicing in Jesus Christ and have much gratitude that he came into the world to save sinners. I am not of those who say, "I am fine, my doctrine is fine, my church is fine, my worship is fine, everything is fine."....
John as long we journey in a sinful world and battle the world, the flesh and the devil here below then to be sure nothing is â€śfineâ€ť. That doesnâ€™t mean my doctrine is bad, my church is bad, my worship is bad and everything is bad. There is always room for improvement. God, thankfully, accepts worship from fallen flawed individuals whom He has redeemed. He doesnâ€™t require perfection. It is not about us, it is about Him.
I am not sure why you bring up arguing with you, I have not said anything about what you have written in any of your posts on this thread with of course the exception being this post.
Frank wrote: What an unusual disability you have! But, the Lord is in control and He will see you through it. I just prayed for you. I pray all of my brothers and sisters have a Christ filled day and will worship Him in spirit and in truth. Luke 17:10, if you are referring to this Frank, my email has been out for a while and I am in the process of setting up a new one. When I do that, I will once again post my email.Things like this don't come easy for us old-timers.
Thanks for the update I will give you mine when yours is available, you can then share it with sc. Hope you don't mind using you as a go between. She has emailed you before, if memory serves me correctly, and I want her to be comfortable with the whole process.
Can identify with things taking time. My wife says the only thing I do quickly is forget stuff. God bless you brother.
s c wrote: Sadly, it hasn't been in small degrees here. I have to be on top of the weather almost hourly because of a disability. I am not set up for spring so am trusting God to see me through with what I have..for the next 5 days...has been 5 days, already of close to/or at 60F temps with lows only getting to mid 20s and 50s. Please keep me in prayer..it is a life and death situation. I have to live at temps below a dry 48F.
Praying for you sister. Let us know if we can help in anyway. I will give Frank my email so you can communicate your needs if we can address them. God bless.