John UK wrote:
Ha!
Oh ROFL......
Oh, one day I'm gonna die larfin.

So true! I wonder what set of books you've been brainwashed by.

What kind of world do we have where a person cannot go to church--Baptist, Reformed, Charismatic--without being programmed into heresies and turned against (and away from) the words of Jesus in the four most important books of the Bible.

You've shown you don't KNOW what the gospels say, have no shame for your wilful ignorance, throw your weight around the forum to silence anyone who wants to bring up Jesus' teachings, other than a few wrested scriptures to prove Calvinist doctrines of fatalism, insisting we can't be good and don't even try, that we owe God NOTHING, and that to try to obey what Jesus told us to do or to consider his teachings is larf, larf just a hoot.

watch and pray wrote:
Speaking up about Jesus is not really an option for those who want to enter Christ's eternal kingdom and not be denied. Jesus said: "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33). See also Luke 12:9-10 about Christ confessing or denying men before the angels of God.
Admittedly, there can be a cost to confessing the claims of the kingdom of God among the kingdoms of men. The cost can come as persecution.
Jesus paid a high cost of suffering in order that men and women might be justly pardoned and enter His Kingdom forever.

Lurker wrote:
CAB,
You have often said it was necessary to harmonize scripture and not wrest it. I agree so I trust you will be extremely specific as to where my argument went astray since it comes to exactly the opposite conclusion that your
armonizing does. I'll await your response.

I disagree with your statement that God requires NOTHING from us, but that is a given. You are a fatalist Calvinist and I am a Christian, and it's obvious the Bible says God requires EVERYTHING from us, as I have said repeatedly and given scripture to prove, and even your scripture you gave yourself said the same, and you were contradicting your own philosophy.

GsTexas wrote:
I read all accounts of Judas, all negative with nothing to imply he was ever saved. The only reason Jesus chose him, was so he would betray him.

Further, Jesus sent Judas out to heal the sick, to preach the gospel, and cast out demons. And Judas did so.

Judas was the treasurer, Satan worked on his mind, like he works on all of us and the Bible tells us Satan is our enemy always tempting and telling filthy lies and trying to drive us crazy and manipulate us to do what Satan wants us to do. And Satan was able to convince Judas that Jesus was bad, and the Bible says Satan entered into Judas.

1517 wrote:
CAB,
Solomon did do evil in the sight of God, he did have 700 wives and 300 concubines, but the Scriptures DO NOT say he was damned. The judgment from God, in 1 Kings, is that he would tear the Kingdom from him. Your preposterous notion that beloved saints are spiritually, then made alive, then die again is no where in the Bible.

Judas also started out great, one of Jesus' disciples, who gave up all he had to come and follow Jesus. How many people do you know who would do that? And he fell and betrayed Jesus, and rather than repent he committed self-murder, died in his sins.

David was confronted with his sin and he repented. David's psalms reveal he was in a lost and grieving state until he repented.

CAB: Who said not to read it? The expression of Solomon shaking his fist at God means Solomon had the hubris to defy God to his face. Stupid.

1517: Likewise, if Solomon sinned, he died in his sins.

CAB: Not if. Solomon DID die in his sins: 1 Kings 11:1 on through and note 11:40 Solomon opposing God. Hubris, like Lucifer's hubris. It's common knowledge Solomon apostatized, knew Jeroboam was going to be given his kingdom because God told him, but still fought God, tried to kill Jeroboam. Stupid much?

1517: That also meant that Peter is in hell, as well as Moses, and Paul.

CAB: Slander Godly saints much?

1517: David had Uriah murdered after committing adultery with Bathsheba.

CAB: David repented, like the Prodigal. Or he WOULD be in Hell. And he DID die spiritually when he sinned. Calvinists love to pick examples like David to excuse their own sins.

1517: We cannot read the first 5 books of the Bible, nor most of the psalms, ecclesiastes, and a good portion of the NT.

CAB:?? Solomon wrote scripture, but apostatized.

1517: You are bringing "another gospel" different from the one presented in the Bible.

Lurker wrote:
As a professed Arminian, what must you do to keep your salvation?

Mike wrote:
You seem to miss the point of Ecclesiastes. Solomon is saying life without God..is in vain. Read the last two verses, and see if these are words from a man who opposes God to his death, or from one who recognizes the vanity of life without God..: Ecclesiastes 12:13,14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

If you want to know why you've been going to church for maybe 30, 40, 50 years and nobody has gotten around to considering the teachings of Jesus, you might remember this is one excuse you might have heard, whenever you may have brought up any of the teachings of Jesus yourself. Am I the only one who have had the wise ones from seminary try to steer me away from the teachings of Jesus? "Don't read that, don't worry your mind over those teachings of Jesus." "Come back over here instead, to these phrases and portions of scripture wrested from long and complex sentences from the epistles of Paul and we'll tell you what they mean."

I'm not saying I disagree with interpretations of Paul Paul's writings as long as scripture is not wrested out of context and not harmonized with the rest of scripture.

1517 wrote:
CAB,
Are you on a casting all into hell campaign? It is also un Christian to disparage brothers in the faith, dead or alive, spreading unfounded accusatory judgments upon them as if YOU sit in the seat reserved for Christ alone. Get real from earth has repeatedly dumped his garbage off here for no good purpose beyond stinking the place up. His frantic surmising is reminiscent of someone who sits in his basement listening to late night fringe radio programs. Ever heard of calling a spade a spade?

Other than that, I'm objectively discussing what the Bible says and does not say and asking for people to put their trust and interest and knowledge in the Bible, and not in what Calvin has to say, to quote and examine scripture for what it is. This is something I don't see happening on this forum all that much.

1517 wrote:
CAB,"I don't know you" means the same thing. Goodness, you miss the forest from the trees.

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, IN THEM SHALL HE DIE.

Solomon died a wicked man in rebellion to God

SteveR wrote:
Prayerfully reconsider your position

1517 wrote:
CAB,
Open and honest rebuke is appropriate and biblical. John the Baptist and the Lord referred to pharisees as brood of vipers and Satan's children. Plus, to condemn someone to Hell places that person on the judgment seat of God. The devil desired that seat as well.

I think that's what that teaching Jesus gave about calling people a "fool" was about -- and Jesus said not to do that, that we'd be in danger of Hell. And Scripture lists railing as one of the sins that are a sin unto death, worthy of Hell if one were to die unrepentent in that sin. It's not right to be a railer, mocking people and making sarcastic hurtful remarks just to be clever. That comes from TV, from the world, from Jewish humor. Trying to mock and humiliate somebody by hurling insults that probably aren't even true is not Christian.

1517 wrote:
Matthew 25:11-12 states that Virgins without oil knocked on the door, but the Lord tells them he NEVER knew them. Never unequivocally means never. If Christ never knew them, they were never saved.

Jesus describes the dumbfounded never saved who find they are going to Hell, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do...?" Jesus said, "I never knew you," called them "workers of iniquity." Like these people who want to blow up the planet for Jesus maybe, people like that?

Romans 8 tells WHO will be raised at the resurrection: those who die with the Holy Spirit-- not those who grieved, quenched, ignored, insulted the Spirit away. Yikes.

And to Steve R, yes, Solomon died in his sins. It's how you end your life, not how you start it, that counts.

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, IN THEM SHALL HE DIE.

TeenChristian wrote:
I was going to stay out of the debate here, but let me ask you guys, how is this going to edify anyone?

I doubt the people I am discussing these matters with have ever read the words of Jesus as recorded in the four gospels when he walked among us. Their answers to the plain teachings and urgent warnings by Jesus are to come back with Calvinist platitudes and old wives tales.

It's a club of peer pressure--as in you can't belong if you don't agree with us. You will be as Jesus said, Hated, Excluded, Ignored, and Rejected.

But Jesus said that's fear of man, and that we should not fear man who has power to kill our body. Rather, Jesus said to fear God who has power to cast body and soul into Hell.

Why was Jesus warning HIS OWN DISCIPLES in Matt 10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

GsTexas[/AUTHOR. There is still nothing to imply the five were ever saved to begin with, especially in light of so many verses in Scripture that clearly teach those that fall away were never saved to begin with, like I posted earlier.

GsTexas wrote:
Matthew 25:3 "They that were foolish took their lamps, and took NO OIL with them." The foolish five never had oil to begin with!

8: And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; FOR OUR LAMPS ARE GONE OUT.

We must read the words of Jesus, with an open and submissive attitude, knowing that God promises us the Holy Spirit to help us understand God's Word. But if we hate the Truth, ignore words, hide from what he's telling us -- so we can invent our OWN truth that feels good to us but is NOT what the Bible SAYS ... well, we might end up in Hell by our wilful ignorance and presumptuous invention of "Truth" to suit ourselves.

Honest ignorance and confusion God won't hold against us, but if we are wilfully doing this the Bible says wilfully adding or subtracting from the scriptures means all kinds of horrible curses.

GsTexas wrote:
Upon receiving salvation, we are imputed the righteousness of Jesus Christ which is how we are justified before God (2Corinthians 5:21).

SO GO SUBMIT. READ AND SEE.

A prayer of "acceptance" that gives God nothing back for his atonement, when the Bible says we are "not our own and bought with a price," and to "count the cost"..is damnable heresy. God wants humble submission to the Word, to seek (not distort) the Truth and to be a "doer of the word and not a forgetful hearer" as Paul taught.

The Bible says, the soul that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE. We do NOT have a license to sin. Sin means SPIRITUAL DEATH.

GsTexas wrote:
Cab writes:

There is nothing in the parable of the ten virgins that implies the other five were ever saved. You are adding to Scripture. Cab writes: Remember the judgment scene Jesus describes a few times in the gospels where Christians are standing shocked to find out they are being thrown into Hell. But Lord, didn't we, didn't we? Dumbfounded. Jesus said, depart you WORKERS OF INIQUITY (sin)."
Funny you mentioned that. Jesus said "I NEVER knew you...."(Matthew 7:23). They were never saved to begin with, just like 1John 2:19 makes clear.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord,Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered, and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

MORAL: If you DIE IN YOUR SINS, you WILL GO TO HELL.