John UK wrote: Personally I think the National Health Service in the UK is most wonderful, so too is the Fire Service, so too is the Police Force, so too is the Army, Navy and Air Forces. These are all paid for by taxation. How else would you do it? _________________ Bro US, I have already shown how for some people their medical treatment truly was free, because they were taking out more than they were putting in. Others will put in and take nothing out because they never need it. Therefore some will put in, and others will take out. Car insurance works in exactly the same way; it is compulsory, and some will never claim, others will claim a lot. I might put in ÂŁ3,000 over ten years and after an accident my insurance company may have to pay out ÂŁ500,000 to a third party. So I paid the first ÂŁ3,000 but the rest of it was paid for by others. In other words, not by me.
Thanks for your thoughts and examples, You also have a good day
B. McCausland wrote: US There is no harm if you wish to rant till you are blue about the ills of a welfare system. However insisting that 'free at the point of use' is not literally true is ridiculous. We all know it is financed somehow. You are playing with words to rant on a topic. Bye.....
None has been a rant on my part. I haven't said, that I can recall, a thing about the ills of a welfare system. My point, whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, is that your healthcare is not and never will be free at anytime. You pay for it. However this discussion does seem to be upsetting you, so will let the topic go. Good day day sister.
Adriel appreciate your humor brother, may you also have a good day.
The NHS, sister BMac is the one playing semantics, not I
If I pay for a plane ticket online and then print it out and go to the airport to board my plane, when I go through security, the gates and board the plane I donâ€™t pay any money at the point of use . Would you say the airline is correct to come out and say my flight was free at the point of use? No, because I paid for it, in your case it is through fees, taxes, NI, at the gas pump,etc. Not free at any point
John UK wrote: Brother, I am perfectly well acquainted with how the tax system works in mine own country. What I am saying is that many of the operations I have had personally were free to me. If you still do not get it, I will furnish you with specific amounts and payments etc.
Not wanting you to disclose personal finances on a public site.
John how many years did you pay into the system and had no prescriptions, no operations, no medical needs because you were in good health?
They do the same type of thinking here. My annual physical exam was allegedly free but I can look at the premiums paid and know it wasn't. They offered me a free shingles vaccine for people my age, more than likely a government program. I been paying taxes for nearly half a century.
Brother its a paid for program and they more than likely have received more money from you than they have spent. Your meds and operations were at no additional charge I have no doubt.
John UK wrote: Bro, I have had many operations on the NHS which were absolutely free. I also have free prescriptions here in Wales. You are not thinking deeply enough, brother.
Thanks John for the examples. Despite claims to the contrary not trying to get in a quarrel here. Your operations were not without cost. The doctors were paid and all the other things involved in it cost money. You would say the government (NHS)paid for it. The government gets its money for such things from people like you, Adriel and BMacCausland through fees, high gas prices, taxes,etc. You've been paying into it for decades brother. The NHS isn't a magical money machine. The money that was used to pay for your operations and your prescriptions came from mainly citizens like you who live there. It is not free, never has been and never will be.
B. McCausland wrote: Playing on semantics again, US, or seeking to find a loophole behind a true statement to quarell and rant about for a while? Though all you say is true, there is no need for it as Adriel's statement is literately true and can stand on its own as veridic a hundred per cent: Though the service is financed somehow, "nobody needs to pay *at the point of its use*", this is what it literally means "Free at the point of use".
Point is it is not free, never has been nor ever will be. You could accurately say no additional charge at point of use if you wish. We also know that doesn't apply to everything.
Not ranting ir seeking a quarrel, thank you, which you seem to be. Just being truthful. Not picking on Adriel either, the quote is from Wikipedia
Unprofitable Servant wrote: You could say it is prepaid through taxes and high fuel cost. It is like a buy ohe get one free offer, the second item is at no extra cost but if you didn't spend the money for the first one you wouldn't be able to enjoy the second one "free". That doesn't even count the cost of excessive delays, limited time with an actual physician, denied procedures and even out of pocket co-pays. To say it is free at any point is at best, misleading.
Adriel wrote: Unprofitable Servant; Quote: "Free at the point of use"
You could say it is prepaid through taxes and high fuel cost. It is like a buy ohe get one free offer, the second item is at no extra cost but if you didn't spend the money for the first one you wouldn't be able to enjoy the second one "free". That doesn't even count the cost of excessive delays, limited time with an actual physician, denied procedures and even out of pocket co-pays. To say it is free at any point is at best, misleading.
Brother John UK do you believe that God inhabits eternity? (Isaiah 57:15). Would it not stand to reason that because God is not limited by time that means He inhabits eternity past, present and future? Which means electing Aunty Dolly from before the foundation of the world in answer to His childâ€™s earnest petition is not out of the realm of His power. We cannot fathom all the essence of God with our finite mind. We have no list of the elect, so praying for God to save an individual is not out of the will of God (Romans 10:1)
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: He turns it wherever He will. Proverbs 21:1
whye are we to pray for those in authority, there is a specific purpose in mind
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. I Timothy 2:2
The only way that happens is if the Lord works His will in the lives of our leaders and in the laws they pass and decisions they make. We oray that God would turn their hearts to the saving of the unborn. We have more and more harsher laws against abortion being passed in some states and also in some states wide latitude to do "abortions" after the child is born alive.
17 He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer.
18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the Lord.
19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the Lord behold the earth;
20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death
anybody know what happened to dear brother Christopher000?
John UK wrote: Bro US, thanks for the links, will look up later. Sure, Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against God's elect. This is what Calvinism teaches. But the Bible also teaches that many will scrape in, rather than enter victoriously. It seems as though the majority want to be scrapers rather than victors. If you check out Mark 11:21-24, especially the conclusion in v24, tell me, have you ever heard a good message on v24? A message which resulted in an improved prayer life? Or are you happy to go on year in year out doing the same old, same old? Man, please wake up, this is hard going.
Thanks John and your are welcome for the links.
Thanks for the challenge and admonition May by God's grace and for His glory we pray with the disciples, Lord increase our faith and may we with the Apostle Paul press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus!
John UK wrote: Bro US, thank you for your reply. It is what I would expect from much of the Christian community, yet is far from satisfactory. This is due to either lack of thought, unbelief, or simply just not taking the teachings of Jesus seriously. ...
First, thank you James Thomas for you very kind words.
Brother John, not sure how the blab it grab group became part of your post. Mind if ask you, do you think that because our Lord stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against Christâ€™s church that there is always out there a remnant according to the election of grace of true believers who are walking in the light as our Lord is in light?
btw, I agree we need to listen to and read the works and sermons of people like Ravenhill and Tozer.
Tozer;s book The Pursuit of God is available on SA
Well worth the time to listen to it. If you wish instead to read it (or read while it is being read) below is a link to it in pdf format.
Thanks John for your response. God using angels to do the unexpected is not a normal use of means found in Scripture. All of should look to the Lord daily for our nutrition but not everyone has their food delivered by ravens. The normal means in that case is if any work not neither shall he eat. My experience has been that there are faithful brethren and sisters in Christ who daily pray for others and in many cases it is indeed trusting God to do what only He can do.
I choose not to focus on the negative that some pray for wrong motives or are not on praying ground due to their spiritual condition. Thatâ€™s for God to judge. I just have to look to my own heart and motives and try by His help to pray according to and in His will. Necessitating the need for forgiveness when I ask amiss or regard iniquity in my heart.
Brother John not sure the passage cited is the best example of a group that had faith that God would answer their prayers
It is not uncommon here in the states for large groups of believers to give themselves to prayer for their brethren who are in dire straits in which only God could help. I see it weekly. They donâ€™t do that over there?