Christopher000 wrote:
You know, whenever I read these stories, I wonder how many people were buried alive, six feet down, and woke up when science and medicine was young, which wasn't all that long ago.
I know there was a time when a string with bells on it would be strung from the coffin to topside just in case the "deceased" woke up, but I doubt many had the luxury of this precaution.

Check out Dr. Jennifer Daniels broadcasts online and deliver yourself from the worldly Organized Medicine so-called "healthcare" racket that is sickening, maiming, impoverishing, and killing all of those foolish enough to enter into its clutches.

John Beechy wrote:
How about people belligerently confronting strangers and killing them because someone says they are bad and need to be killed in the name of Christ? Think U.S. military terrorists. Is this ok?

Skylight wrote:
CAB: I'm not a calvinist but these are some verses spoken by te LORD himself
John 3:16
John 6:40
Mathew 25:46
Romans 6:23
John 5:24
John 3:36
There are many more, but you know what they all have in common? Thay all say "eternal life". These verses were written way before Calvin's time. I beleive what the LORDS word says because it came from Him not Calvin or anybody else. So can I ask you why you don't trust Him at his word? Is it something you were taught by some teacher?

It's how you END your race that counts as much or more as how you start it.

IOW, life is a test, not a lottery. We're not a dream in God's mind, not robots, and we're not picked out of a hat as totally depraved blobs to get sent to Heaven all good to go. Or picked out of a hat to go to Hell, "sorry you lose."

Adam and Eve had eternal life in Paradise, but they didn't keep it. Fallen angels had eternal life in Heaven, but lost it and are destined for Hell.

Steve C. Roberts wrote:
CAB Please help me to understand this; you stated that Eternal Security, aka Once Saved Always Saved, aka OSAS, aka Perseverance of the Saints, aka Preservation of the Saints -- this is the CULMINATION of points 1 through 4 of the TULIP. Are you saying just because someone believes in eternal security that they are a Calvinist?

4 ..ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 ..having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that BELIEVED not.

6 ..angels which kept not their first estate..he hath reserved in everlasting chains..

7 Sodom and Gomorrah..are set forth as an example..

12 .. spots in your feasts of charity,..feeding themselves without fear: clouds without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;

13..wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

18 ..mockers in the last time..walk after their ungodly lusts.

19..having not the Spirit.

21 KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God..

GsTexas wrote:
Hebrews 12 makes it clear how God deals with his children when they sin, he chastises them, he doesn't kick them to the curb like you erroneously believe.

1 If we don't forgive (we get all our sins put back on us 10-fold), so much for OSAS.

2 Jesus taught the master was FURIOUS with the lazy servant, (SERVANT is another word for believer), "You lazy, worthless, good for nothing servant. Throw him into outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth."

3 Same with the backslidden servant who thought he'd play around with the dark side while the master was away and then hurry up and get right again, but the master came back early.

4 Same with the 5 foolish betrothed virgins who let their lamps go dry. Got locked out of Heaven (Hell much?).

5 Annanias and Sophira, remember?

6 Judas? Don't say Jesus picked Judas as a devil and thief to appoint the highest office in the church so he could micromanage his crucifixion.

7 Solomon built alters to Molech and let his 1000-plus wives burned his children there. Hell much?

Lurker wrote:
OK, CAB, Hbr 5:7-10
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him....
Before Calvary there was no such thing as eternal salvation so all your appeals to pre-Calvary people who you assume were saved and went to hell are a waste of your time as well as ours. Spare us, please.
Regarding your appeal to 1 Tim 2:4 as prooftext that God doesn't always get what He wills and (I assume) you meant to apply the same conclusion to....
John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Even if you were right about the 1 Tim text, surely you aren't suggesting that the Son would disobey the Father! Or is it you don't believe He is able?

GsTexas wrote:
Oh by the way, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire, so I guess according to your belief, you just lost your salvation. Hebrews 6 makes it clear you can't get it back either.

I am not a liar.

Why do you think I'm here posting? To win a debate? I'm trying to WARN you that you CAN lose your salvation. Just go read what Jesus said. It is NOT TRUE that God requires nothing of us. The most important commandment per Jesus is: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul and mind, and thy neighbor as thyself." Does that sound like nothing?

It's ridiculous. It's all over the pages, every page. If it were as you said, we would need no Bible. But the Bible is full of INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So really the Bible then is something that will make people go to Hell if they try to follow it? Is that what you are saying?

This is craziness. You can carry on this discussion without me.

GsTexas wrote:
Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit."

That means that you are making choices and doing things in response to the leading of the spirit. And you are making choices to ignore and oppose the leading of the flesh.

So what if you DON'T do that? Are there examples in scripture of people who did not make those choices and as a result they lost their salvation? The Holy Spirit went away...was quenched, insulted, grieved away? Answer: Yes, yes, and yes. And I have identified many.

Instruction in righteousness is one of the purposes of the Bible per 1 Timothy 3. We read the Bible so we can learn what we can't do and must do if we want to avoid Hell and go to Heaven.

A couple examples Jesus taught: If we don't forgive others, then all that we were forgiven will get put back on us 10-fold. (ie that means Hell)

TeenChristian wrote:
CAB: OK we get it, you're a hellfire/brimstone preacher. But explain something to me: "There is none righteous, no, not one", Romans 3:23. If "mome is rightous" how can our works justify us? Man by himself is depraved/wicked/sinful, get the picture? Do yourself a favor & read "Putting Amazing into Grace" by Michael Horton. One if the best books I own (best book is "What Jesus Demands from The World" by John Piper)

And the discussion we've been having, or at least I have been presenting, is can a saved person become lost? Not how does a lost person get saved? But how does a saved person become lost?

And I have offered many proofs, and not one is acknowledged, not even a reply from anyone. It's like everyone is in a trance and pretending the discussion is about anything other than what it is about.

I am not quitting until somebody will acknowledge the teachings of Jesus I have presented, or one example, I've presented dozens of examples.

GsTexas wrote:
you are just plain lying, because I did respond to your erroneous take on the parable of the sower, and clearly demonstrated that all three except the one who bore fruit were lost.

You are playing dumb? I state plainly, Jesus said we can lose our salvation and go to Hell. Here are some examples and proofs: So I list a whole bunch. And the Calvinists are in some kind of a trance, and their brains skip over the part about how the examples were once saved and now they aren't, to the "I never said they were saved."

Programmed much? Mind controlled much? Can't even understand plain English or follow a conversation enough to even understand the point of it?

This is really sad.

Dorcas wrote:
I do not believe that I personally attacked you.I just gave you a biblical admonition. Since you did not receive it so be it.....carry on.

Calvinists are quite cruel and aggressive and prideful people I've noticed, or many of them are, at least on this forum. That's why I need to come here and try to urge people to please go read the gospels that the churches have been pointing you away from, misleading you by saying that the plain teachings of Jesus are not what they seem to be, but they are in code to the Jews and we can ignore them.

GsTexas wrote:
CAB says we are justified by our works.
Disgusting.

We discussed the 10 betrothed virgins, and that 5 of them had let their once-full lamps burn out and got locked out of the wedding. Does that mean Heaven? No. That means H-E-L-L.

Parable of the Sower we discussed a few days ago, lots of posts, remember? You guys all ignored the second and third examples, the one that withered away under PERSECUTION and the other that once bore fruit but got choked by riches and cares of this world. These were ONCE SAVED but did not make it in, meaning they LOST THEIR SALVATION. Don't say they were never saved. The seed took root and grew up, that means BORN AGAIN, SAVED.

And the unjust(backslidden)servant who thought he'd indulge his dark side a bit while the master was away, thought he'd get right in time. But the master came back early and he went to H-E-L-L.

I mentioned Jesus warning his disciples who were arguing over "who was the greatest" if they didn't humble themselves and become like a little child (Jesus presented an actual little kid to them) that they would go to H-E-L-L.

Dorcas wrote:
CAB...in all Christian charity I must say after reading your posts you are out of Gods order by trying to teach the elder men and young men on this forum.
You might want to acquaint yourself with the second chapter of Titus beginning in verse 3 as to a women's defined role.
Are you married? Does your husband know of the teaching role you have assumed on this board? Please consider these admonitions...because you are beginning to have a Jezebel spirit that is showing through on most of your posts.

Your name of Dorcas does not sound like a man's name, so what are you doing trying to boss this forum and throw people off?

Are you a moderator? Is this your forum? If not, then you are out of order telling people who can post here and who can't post here, and you need to get over yourself.

John Beechy wrote:
Mobile app lets you do it.

And UK John's alias postaboy gave me an attack virus when I clicked on his link. But my firewall stopped it.

Calvinists are clever. I'm impressed.

The posting rules say we can only post one post at a time. Personal attacks are forbidden. But the people who are the regulars here, the gatekeepers, are the ones who break all the rules.

All I'm doing is pointing people to the words of Jesus, to his teachings, saying "go ahead and check out Jesus," compare what Jesus taught with what Calvin said -- and I think they'd like to see me get the Servetus treatment if it could be arranged.

TeenChristian wrote:
CAB: what the heck did you say to make everybody so mad?! You seem conservative to me.
While we're recommending preachers, let me introduce to you a man whose influence on me, is profound. A man who saved me from spiritual shipwreck countless times. His name is Tim Conway. His ministry website (my ALL TIME favorite website) i'll be honest. com, check it out!

They are all mad at me because their pet doctrine is so obviously not true, and they cannot bear to think that the kind of Christianity described in the Bible is actually what God expects of us today also, that the rules haven't changed and the chance of ending up in Hell for eternity is much more likely than the opposite if we do not fear God and humble ourselves, go down, down, down and put God up, up, up, and get over ourselves, and overcome. They think God wants to spend an eternity with selfish blobs who only care about themselves and think they have a license to sin. NOT.

GsTexas wrote:
I meant Dan Corner.

Calvinists seem to be very good at blowing smoke, breaking the posting rules, and generally using dirty tricks to get their way, since they don't have scripture or truth on their side.

Which makes me wonder, why are people like this even posting at all? If you don't really believe in what you're saying and are just trying to make sure the other side is discredited any possible way -- what gives here.

GsTexas wrote:
This thread was going great, until CAB showed up. Cults also claim there teachings are from Jesus, so CAB's defense of her false prophet are meaningless.

Show me one teaching where Jesus said Christians were supposed to sit back and do nothing at all, and call this "faith." He taught the opposite.

Show me where Jesus said the job of Christians is to go around to new converts and tell them to do nothing to serve God, and not to think of themselves as servants or slaves of God.

Show me where Jesus ever said we owe him nothing, or anybody else in scripture ever claimed we owe God NOTHING. Yet this is what Calvinists keep insisting on this forum: ie If you try to serve God it means you don't really have faith, ergo not saved.

Better NOT to get saved if what you're saying is true, so you can do worthwhile things without having a bunch of people badgering you that you're not really saved, trying to "work your way to Heaven."

JSC wrote:
Cab
Your zealous tyraids should start with some truth
Skylight's position is the same as your's regarding calvinists

So Dave Hunt who is supposed to be the great debunker of Calvinism, his "What Kind of Love is This" -- he's a Calvinist.

Eternal Security, aka Once Saved Always Saved, aka OSAS, aka Perseverance of the Saints, aka Preservation of the Saints -- this is the CULMINATION of points 1 through 4 of the TULIP.

So just because somebody doesn't believe in Limited Atonement and Irresistable Grace, hey if they believe in Total Depravity and Eternal Security (2 pointer) and maybe add in the Unconditional Election -- hey, they are a Calvinist. They might as well just go the whole way.

Jesus taught against all five points, specifically taught against them. Salvation is conditional, and why don't people just try reading the words of Jesus, like read them over and over, the four gospels, and maybe get a baby Bible, some paraphrase, and familiarize with what Jesus taught and did not teach.

Ricardo S wrote:
1 Corinthians 4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Why you twist the Bible? Not good you fight against the teaching of God. You do resist the Holy Spirit.
An Author starts and finishes in the sense of completing, not destroying!

John UK wrote:
Dan Corner, founder of evangelical outreach, false teacher and dangerous.

Why do we NEVER hear any of the teachings of Jesus in the churches, not one church?

You won't hear them because they're hard sayings, they warn of Hell, and tell us that God requires EVERYTHING of us; that the Christian life is one of death to self and living to God, of putting God first, ourselves last, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. That we be an overcomer, that we have a race to run, and we will give account for every idle word on Judgment Day.

That if we don't forgive others that all our formerly-forgiven sins will be put back on us ten-fold (so much for OSAS).

Jesus teaches us to buck up to resist persecution which we are told WILL come, and can easily destroy our faith.

Lots more.

Jesus is Savior website has some good things, (lots of sugar to sweeten the poison) but the guy is a rabid Calvinist.

So there's nothing wrong with reading the source, the Gospels, what JESUS SAID, and making up your own mind, irregardless what the Megachurch or e$tabli$hed religion $ays.