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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  7/20/2018
TUESDAY, JUL 10, 2018  |  219 comments
Duterte vows to resign if anybody can prove God exists

The Philippine president, who recently sparked outrage for calling God stupid, has courted new controversy in his largely Roman Catholic country by saying he will resign if anybody can prove that God exists.

President Rodrigo Duterte, who has had a thorny relationship with the church, questioned anew in a speech late Friday some of the basic tenets of the Catholic faith, including the concept of original sin, which he said taints even innocent infants and can only be removed through baptism in a church for a fee.

"Where is the logic of God there?" Duterte asked in a speech at the opening of a science and technology event in southern Davao city. ...


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News Item7/20/18 5:00 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK wrote:
John 17:2 KJV
(2)  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John, we are both agreed that no man has eternal life or is saved, until he believes.
When Jesus gives someone eternal life, it is after they have believed.
Jesus gives eternal life to those the Father gives to him.
Therefore, the ones the Father gave to Jesus were not yet saved, or how could Jesus give them eternal life?
Yes, they were not yet saved. We agree that people receive eternal life after they believe.

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
John 17:6

However, Jesus is speaking in the past tense. He already manifested Himself to those the Father gave Him. That was part of His earthly ministry before this verse. They belonged to the Father in the past, but were given to the Son. They were keepers of God's law in the Old Testament and transitioned over to the New Covenant through faith in Jesus Christ. Read Chapter 17 a little slower, you'll get it!

219

News Item7/20/18 2:48 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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John for JESUS wrote:
3) What?!
If they were keepers of God's word, I think it is safe to say that they already believed.
John 17:2 KJV
(2)  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John, we are both agreed that no man has eternal life or is saved, until he believes.

When Jesus gives someone eternal life, it is after they have believed.

Jesus gives eternal life to those the Father gives to him.

Therefore, the ones the Father gave to Jesus were not yet saved, or how could Jesus give them eternal life?

218

News Item7/20/18 2:23 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK wrote:
1. God the Father has given God the Son authority over all mankind. To do what?
2. "that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him".
Jesus gives eternal life to people, sinners who believe. Did they have eternal life before they believed? No. Even you agree with that. So:-
3. before they became believers, God the Father "gave" them to God the Son.
4. So God the Father is giving sinners, unbelievers, to God the Son.
This is the covenant between Father and Son.
as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:2

1) That Jesus would give eternal life.

2) Okay

3) What?!

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
John 17:6

They were the Father's because they believed God word. The Father gave them to Jesus and they kept God's word by now believing on the Son.

4) If they were keepers of God's word, I think it is safe to say that they already believed.

217

News Item7/20/18 10:41 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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John for JESUS wrote:
John UK...
John 17:2 KJV
(2)  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jesus gives eternal life to those who were the Father's. What are you trying to say? That eternal life is limited to some? Okay.

Think about it, John. The word "power" in the text usually means "authority", so:-

1. God the Father has given God the Son authority over all mankind. To do what?

2. "that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him".

Jesus gives eternal life to people, sinners who believe. Did they have eternal life before they believed? No. Even you agree with that. So:-

3. Jesus gives eternal life to these sinners who are now believers; and before they became believers, God the Father "gave" them to God the Son.

4. So God the Father is giving sinners, unbelievers, to God the Son. And God the Son is giving them eternal life because every last one of these sinners comes to believe. Coincidence? Not at all. JESUS is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith! He BRINGS them to faith.

This is the covenant between Father and Son.

Read the text slow enough and you'll see it.

216

News Item7/20/18 10:12 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK...

John 17:2 KJV
(2)  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jesus gives eternal life to those who were the Father's. What are you trying to say? That eternal life is limited to some? Okay.

John 17:6 KJV
(6)  I [Jesus] have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Goes along with my last comment. They belonged to God the Father and were given to the Son. All along, they kept His word. That is why they followed the Son, because they already knew His Father.

John 17:9 KJV
(9)  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

He is praying for His disciples. Your point?

John 17:14
(14)  I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

They are not of the world. Hmm, if they are not of the world that must mean the world that God loves and sent His Son to die for are unbelievers. Makes sense since believers already believe.

215

News Item7/20/18 8:23 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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John for JESUS wrote:
John 1:9 does not say some light, so that is the first problem. Secondly, that doesn't mean the others never heard the preaching of the gospel or never would. Maybe all they needed to believe was the light they were shown. Whereas, Paul was the stubborn one who needed more. This just does not prove anything you have been saying. God's love, the Light, being rich in mercy, the much more than die in Adam is all just twisted and limited to maintain a man-made made-up philosophy.
John,

John 17:2 KJV
(2)  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 17:6 KJV
(6)  I [Jesus] have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:9 KJV
(9)  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17:14 KJV
(14)  I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

If you don't apply a limit, you are calling Jesus a bad example. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. 1 Sam 15:23

214

News Item7/20/18 7:48 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK wrote:
Acts 22:6-9 KJV
(6)  And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
(7)  And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
(8)  And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
(9)  And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Notice that the light was Jesus of Nazareth, and the whole group saw that light and all were afraid. But the only person who heard his voice was Saul of Tarsus. Think about it.
John 1:9 does not say some light, so that is the first problem. Secondly, that doesn't mean the others never heard the preaching of the gospel or never would. Maybe all they needed to believe was the light they were shown. Whereas, Paul was the stubborn one who needed more. This just does not prove anything you have been saying. God's love, the Light, being rich in mercy, the much more than die in Adam is all just twisted and limited to maintain a man-made made-up philosophy.
213

News Item7/20/18 4:00 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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John,

We see some light as John 1:9 says. But here is much more light:

Acts 22:6-9 KJV
(6)  And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
(7)  And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
(8)  And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
(9)  And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

Notice that the light was Jesus of Nazareth, and the whole group saw that light and all were afraid. But the only person who heard his voice was Saul of Tarsus. Think about it.

212

News Item7/19/18 2:42 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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James Thomas wrote:
...
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand.

I believe this is the death which reigned from Adam to Moses mentioned in Romans 5.
Thoughts?

My thoughts James are that this is not the death which reigned from Adam to Moses mentioned in Romans 5.
211

News Item7/19/18 11:10 AM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
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John UK wrote:
I mentioned it because quick is very rarely used today
Great testimony. Thanks for sharing. I too see the same things as you see John in the modern versions.

But getting back to my point which you see, there is only one definition for quick or quicken in Scripture, and dead for that matter which we all understand from Gen 3 with Adam...why not carry it across Scripture?

I'd think that may be able to be seen here.

Ps 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.

In Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Which law? The law of faith(Rom 3:27)

Then there is the ministration of death mentioned in 2 Cor 3:7 which was a covenant. also Vanity.

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand.

I believe this is the death which reigned from Adam to Moses mentioned in Romans 5.

Thoughts?

210

News Item7/19/18 7:17 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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James Thomas wrote:
Or consider the possibility that the
many descriptions are one in the same.
Quick and dead are demonstrated to be polar opposites in the places I looked in scripture so the term quick I'd say means life.
Yes James, absolutely. I mentioned it because quick is very rarely used today, so we might think that it only refers to biblical experiences.

The CoE Book of Common Prayer says that when Jesus comes, he shall judge the quick and dead; in other words, the living and the dead.

So, for example, in modern versions of the Bible, you won't have quicken, but make alive. Quick is alive, quicken is make alive.

So, for example, in Ephesians 2:1, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead.." is in modern parlance, "He has made you alive who were dead."

It is a wonderful thing that God has done. I can distinctly remember the moment when God made me alive to spiritual things; such an awful conviction of sin and dread of coming judgment, a knowledge of the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ which was frightening, and a big impression on my heart that I must needs find out more about these things, without knowing where to start.

209

News Item7/19/18 6:24 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK wrote:
Romans 6:4 KJV
(4)  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Just as Adam represented all men when he sinned and thus all had imputed guilt, so also Christ represented all the elect and thus all of them had imputed righteousness.

That's one reason you can know federal headship isn't true. If Jesus was a federal head, then when He paid for our sins everyone would be saved just like everyone would be a sinner in Adam. I never heard of the baptism into Adam. No federal headship found in scripture. That matters to some people!

Water doesn't place us in Christ. The Holy Spirit does. This verse doesn't even mention water!

208

News Item7/19/18 4:28 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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John for JESUS wrote:
Romans 6:4
John, here is one of those federal headship verses, so I'm glad you mentioned it.

Romans 6:4 KJV
(4)  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Just as Adam represented all men when he sinned and thus all had imputed guilt, so also Christ represented all the elect and thus all of them had imputed righteousness. In this verse we see that Christ's burial is echoed in our burial, symbolised by water baptism by immersion; the resurrection of Christ is also echoed in our water baptism when we come up out of the water, and this translates to newness of life, because we have become a new creature IN CHRIST.

This is what federal headship is all about. In Adam all (the human race) die (just as he did), but in Christ all (who trust him) have everlasting life (just as he has).

Every person in the world, no matter what age they are, are under the federal headship of either Adam or Christ. There is no middle ground, no neutral ground, no other alternative, it is one or the other. The unregenerate are in Adam, and the regenerate are in Christ.

207

News Item7/18/18 8:19 PM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
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John UK wrote:
Yes, it is clear that there are many definitions for quicken, depending on context.
Or consider the possibility that the
many descriptions are one in the same.

Quick and dead are demonstrated to be polar opposites in the places I looked in scripture so the term quick I'd say means life.

Psalm 119:25 My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken me according to *thy word*.

Ps 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in *thy way*.

John 14:6 *I am the way*, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What about eyes from beholding vanity?

Jer. 2:5 Thus saith the LORD, What iniquity have your fathers found in me, that they are gone far from me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?

Jer 2:8 walked after things that do not profit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

Jer 2:11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteous

206

News Item7/18/18 6:36 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK wrote:
1) getting all that from those two verses.
1) Good point, I didn't even think of that!

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Ephesians 2:4‭-‬5

A) God is rich in mercy! Not poor as you would have it!

B) God loves us! Us while we were dead in our sins! As it says, "For God so loved the world..."! Amen!

C) He made us alive together with Christ! When do we enter into union with Christ? After faith when we are baptized into the body of Christ.

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:4

That means we aren't free from sin's grip and able to walk in newness of life until we have been baptized and we aren't baptized until we first believe.

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:25‭-‬27

There are a whole lot of sermons in those 2 verses!

205

News Item7/18/18 5:32 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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John for JESUS wrote:
1) That's why it says:
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Ephesians 2:4‭-‬5
A) Sinners are eternally dead, separated from God.
B) The Gospel is preached.
C) Sinners believe.
D) God then gives to that person eternal life.
That's magical, getting all that from those two verses, John.

As I read it, I see the glorious acts of God the Spirit saving the elect on account of his great love for them, which explains his mercy towards them; and finding them dead in sin (even as all others) he raises them from the dead, gives them life in Christ, and thereby saves their souls.

As for the word of God being "quick and powerful", sure it is, but only in the lives of the elect. False professors like yourself cannot make head nor tail of what the Bible teaches, even denying the penal substitution of Christ and water baptism. You talk of gospel preaching and believing the message, but if you have the message wrong, your belief will be wrong. And you have the message wrong. John, you have a false gospel which cannot save.

204

News Item7/18/18 2:44 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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penned wrote:
1) have I ever said that Israel cannot be a country? I simply have said that the chosen people are the elect, that means Christians.

2) Mexico is not Zion. they have a right to exist. but they are not the chosen people over the world.

3) the doctrine of election means there is a chosen group.... now that is considered satanic?
one people.
not two.

1) In fairness you haven't. Zionism though is understood to be the movement that Jews believed in to re-establish Israel in it's traditional homeland. So when you act like Zionism is a bad thing I thought you were against it.

2) Correct, Israelis are.

"For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 7:6

And remember this:

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
Romans 11:1

3) God selects believers to be grafted into the promises of Israel. Nothing satanic about that! I was referring to your obsession with Israel over all of the other countries there are.

203

News Item7/18/18 2:38 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
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Penny, the Christian Church always has to keep track of, and be https://tinyurl.com/gmxgbsm (Exposing Hidden Anti-Semitism in the Church)

By the way, https://tinyurl.com/y94fm6vs (the irreducible complexity) shows there has to be a God

202

News Item7/18/18 1:36 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
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John for JESUS wrote:
2) I'm not part of any Zionist organization. However, they can be a country like any of the others. Why are you so against people having their own country? It's weird, kind of satanic!
see what I mean folks?

I just quoted from 1 peter that sion is built on the foundation of Christ.

He rejects it and refers it back to nation state building in the middle east.

This is your problem.

He is calling the new testament doctrine satanic.

have I ever said that Israel cannot be a country? I simply have said that the chosen people are the elect, that means Christians.

Mexico is not Zion. they have a right to exist. but they are not the chosen people over the world.

There is nothing greater or lesser about Mexico. Each nation has a right to exist.

Israel=Mexico=Switzerland=Peru

nations of the world, one not holier than the other. people who need a Savior.

the doctrine of election means there is a chosen group.... now that is considered satanic?

one people.

not two.

we want Jews in that group.

we want Gentiles in that group.

we want as many as the Lord allows!

its called the church! the remnant! the beloved of God! the Bride of Christ!

when basic Christian doctrine is called sa

201

News Item7/18/18 1:27 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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penny wrote:
1) I know you...there is an idol here.

2) and when you are dealing with a zionist

3) rejects election because it would harm their high view of a carnal kingdom

4)don't you see that you go in circles?
you present election with great clarity but it is rejected.

1) Yes, and it's name is Calvinism.

2) I'm not part of any Zionist organization. However, they can be a country like any of the others. Why are you so against people having their own country? It's weird, kind of satanic!

3) I embrace the fact that God selects believers for eternal life. Being elect is a good thing and He would have the whole world be elect if they believed.

4) If Calvinist would just listen to God's Word everything would be more clear.

200
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The Depravity of Sin - Pride

Sin's Depravity - God's Grace
Pottstown Bible Church
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