It's no secret that the Lord returns to gather up His elect in Revelation 20, which is after The Great Tribulation and prior to the 1,000 reign of Christ.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6
Corresponding to that. Jesus returns after Israel is attacked and cries out to Him at the end of the Tribulation period.
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
More people die from the flu and driving than the Coronavirus, better stop going to church for the rest of their lives. Unless they can walk there and guarantee they won't catch the flu. Let's all lock ourselves up and live in fear!
James Thomas wrote: I think your timeline is a bit off. Jer 29:4 4Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon; Jer 29:14 14And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive. Sound like Isaiah 11? Read on and you will see the better promises found in Jer 31:33.
Okay, thanks, Iâ€™m still looking at stuff. Sometimes life gets in the way from me studying like I would want too! But, I havenâ€™t forgotten.
They were both future events at the time they were written, but they are two separate regatherings. Deut 30:1-6 already happened after the Babylonian exile. While Isaiah 11:11 is yet future. Although, I donâ€™t have all of my eschatological ducks in a row and may be off some as far as that. All I can say is I will try to study up some on the second regathering and see how it all fits.
Adriel wrote: You forgot to look at the next verse, JohnFor. 13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." They were "born of God." NOT human intervention. And remember: Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING to the good pleasure of HIS WILL," God provides the "power to receive" (V12) John 6:44 NO MAN can come to me, EXCEPT the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Salvation isnâ€™t by human intervention. It is from God to those who believe. Ephesians 1:4 says He chose â€śusâ€ť. Do you know who they are? Faithful believers! He chose that those who believe will be holy and blameless before Him. Whatever you think John 6:44 means, Peter, who was a believing disciple could not come to Jesus either!
John 1:12-13 (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Who did God give the power to become children of God to? To as many as first receive Him and believe on His name. So it is clear to anyone who cares to see, you must believe to be saved. People arenâ€™t saved to believe!
danfromtenn wrote: Amen John UK and Adriel. One does not have the capability of hearing the Gospel until he has been born again (from above). He does not have Life (with a capital L) until then.
None of that is scriptural, of course. Once you are preached the gospel, you have the capacity! How will they believe if they havenâ€™t heard?
â€śHow then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.â€ť â€â€Romansâ€¬ â€10:14-17â€¬
Hearing doesnâ€™t come by magic spell, but by the word of God.
James Thomas wrote: I'm not sure your following my point. So let me rephrase for clarity. My point is that "the second time" is referring to the Lord setting His hand... 1ST Time was in Egypt. Ex 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: Second time was in Egypt/Assyria etc. to deliver the remnant. Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time.... Does that make sense?
You are saying the first time God brought Israel out was in Egypt and the second time was in Egypt and Assyria.
James Thomas wrote: I've been pondering this and I believe I see our disconnect in all this J4J. Lets take a look again at these two verses which I've abbreviated to demonstrate a point. Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time... Zech 10:10 I will bring them **again**also out of the land of Egypt**, and gather them out of Assyria... Is it possible that the "second time" reference and the "again" refers to simply the Lord setting His hand yet a second time in the land of Egypt to bring them out yet again? I believe it is. If you don't see it to be plausible, what would be your reasoning?
Because they were scattered abroad, not just in Egypt. So regathering some out of Egypt would be different than all of them exodusing out of Egypt together.
Iâ€™m concerned with the remnant. It would appear Israel is referred to that only after they were driven out of the Promised Land and scattered.
â€śSo the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.â€ť â€â€2 Chroniclesâ€¬ â€30:6â€¬
So of the two times a remnant is gathered, it is in belief first and then in unbelief the second time. Israel wasnâ€™t ever called a remnant in Egypt.
1) â€śHe that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.â€ť â€â€Markâ€¬ â€16:16â€¬
We must believe to be saved. Belief doesnâ€™t warrant or earn salvation. Jesus alone completed the work and God graciously gives it to us when we believe. God has commanded us to believe, we must obey Him or face the consequences.
2) Sure, dead people canâ€™t believe. However, they cannot sin either. Therefore, everyone would be innocent if that was the case, which it is not. Death is a term to explain our separation from God. We are dead to Him.
3) God chose those who are in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him. Only believers are in Christ! This says nothing about God making people believe.
4) We know God will take care of those who love Him because of how He treated the Jews in the past who believed in Him.
â€śGod hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,â€ť â€â€Romansâ€¬ â€11:2â€¬
5) It says in Peter when people become elect. Itâ€™s when they are sanctified by the Holy Spirit and not before. Also, Titus says it is the faith of the elect. Those selected by God for salvation have faith.
James Thomas wrote: There's a few problems with your idea that the nation was created after Egypt, J4J. First off, where in Scripture can you say that narrative is written?
Secondly, Those that were delivered from Egypt were God's people before going into to Egypt. Here is one narrative which very specifically says that Israel came into Egypt so therefore they were a people(nation) before entering.
Psalm 105:23 **Israel also came into Egypt**; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham. 24And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies. 25He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants. 26He sent Moses his servant; and Aaron whom he had chosen.
Iâ€™ll have to do more research as to when they first became a official nation. It seems to me they needed their own land and borders with their own laws and rulers to be considered a nation. Also, the tribe of Israel was in Egypt, so they werenâ€™t scattered at that time. God didnâ€™t regather them after they were dispersed at that time, He brought them out of Egypt and only Egypt. So after a dispersion, I would still think God regathered them after the Babylonian exile and in our times. Letâ€™s say you are right though, now what?
I guess you donâ€™t mind! Nobody is saying it isnâ€™t Godâ€™s choice, but you are leaving out peopleâ€™s responsibility to believe. Many are called, but few are actually chosen because they will not believe.