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USER COMMENTS BY “ OBSERVER ”
Page 1 | Page 8 ·  Found: 500 user comments posted recently.
News Item12/19/17 2:33 PM
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John UK wrote:
Re-read my 1.26pm post and then apologise. Thank you bro.
No John, you cannot have it both ways. Either Christ died for everyone but his blood does not atone, or he died for those that the Father had given him, albeit that the value of his sacrifice is infinite.

You are confusing the infinite value of the sacrifice for a universal atonement. These things are not the same at all!


News Item12/19/17 2:26 PM
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John UK wrote:
Observer, check out the link to John Owen's explanation of "sufficient for all" in my 1.52pm post.
The Day of Atonement was a provision of God for Israel. Tom, Dick and Harry certainly benefitted from it. To dismiss it because it was only a picture of Christ's blood rather than Christ's blood itself is poor dinkum. The blood shed on the Day of Atonement was for all the people. You won't find any scripture where the Jews denied that.
It was in picture language the gospel being preached to them. Nothing more.

You make nonsense of the whole by now coming to the point where Christ atones but his atonement does not save. Seriously John?

Although the price of redemption was not actually paid by Christ till after his incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefit thereof were communicated to the elect in all ages, successively from the beginning of the world, in and by those promises, types, and sacrifices wherein he was revealed, and signified to be the seed which should bruise the serpent's head; and the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, being the same yesterday, and to-day and for ever. ( 1 Corinthians 4:10; Hebrews 4:2; 1 Peter 1:10, 11; Revelation 13:8; Hebrews 13:8 ) Bapt Conf of Faith 1689 Chapter 8


News Item12/19/17 2:11 PM
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John UK wrote:
Observer, are you saying that all the Jews in Israel who benefitted from the yearly Day of Atonement and all the other sacrifices, were actually saved?
Not at all .. Romans 9.6 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

The cardinal ordinances meant nothing to those who were not spiritual.

You seem to be of the opinion that the OT sacrifices achieved anything. The blood of bulls and lambs cannot save. They pointed to a better sacrifice and it is only those who saw the better sacrifice and performed the rituals with faith in that better sacrifice that were saved.

You're reading too much into the OT pictures and shadows, like the Prebys.

The tribes were represented on the ephod of the high priest not to represent every person among the Israelites but to teach that persons from every tribe would be saved. Just as in the NT, the word "all" is often used in the sense of Jews and Gentiles, not every single individual in the world.

Your argument that they were not saved because they lacked faith is a nonsense. Faith is a blessing guaranteed by the atonement, unless you are saying that only unbelief is not atoned for.


News Item12/19/17 1:59 PM
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John UK wrote:
...
Sufficient for ALL; efficient in the ELECT...
Actually let's be more precise:

Quote:
12/5/17 8:19 AM
"We must preach that God loves all the hearers of the gospel and tell them that Jesus died to save them. This is the good news of the gospel which, if people reject, they only have themselves to blame when the wrath of God remains on them."

And to support this you claimed that an atonement does not necessarily save:

12/3/17 12:29 PM
"Sure looks as though Leviticus 23 is the unanswered problem for any who do not see that an atonement is no guarantee of salvation, but that faith is a requisite to appropriate that atonement and make it mine.

Also, not all (that is, every person) of the children of Israel were saved, for many "entered not in because of unbelief", even though there was a Day of Atonement every year, and the high priest wore on his breastplate the twelve gems which REPRESENTED the twelve tribes of Israel before the mercy seat in the most holy place, where he sprinkled the atoning blood. And yet not all these persons were saved."

Show me where Owen argued for a universal atonement that is only effective upon faith being present. That simply is not his argument!


News Item12/19/17 12:44 PM
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Regarding the thief on the cross:

[URL=https://books.google.com/books?id=iQwDAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=seven+wonders+of+grace,+spurgeon&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzudHcz5bYAhWjRt8KHfTDAkwQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=seven%20wonders%20of%20grace%2C%20spurgeon&f=false]]]Spurgeon - Seven Wonders of Grace[/URL]


News Item12/19/17 12:07 PM
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John UK wrote:
I don't believe Jesus bore the wrath of God for all men, where all means all.
...
faith is a gift from God, and we are justified by faith, the moment we truly believe, we are saved. Instantaneously.
Now I am confused John.

I have definitely read you argue for a universal atonement. Have you changed your mind?

We are justified upon true repentance and faith and yes it is in that moment instantaneous. In that sense the jailor's conversion was instantaneous, not 10 seconds!! But then as you say faith is a gift - so can we determine the time God grants it?

But you seem to be suggesting that faith is really that simple and can be done even in a vacuum of knowledge. So that even the person who knows virtually nothing about the teachings of the Bible can come to understand sufficient in 10 seconds to be converted. If that is what you are arguing for then I am sorry but that is plain nonsense.

I'm still struggling to understand what your original post was aimed to get over. It sure seems like you had an agenda. Why are you so slow to explain what the point was John?

BTW - regarding the thief on the cross - people often mistake this as an instantaneous conversion. I would recommend reading Spurgeon's sermon on it.


News Item12/19/17 11:50 AM
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John UK wrote:
Thank you Christopher. You are one of the few who really think about what I say. Most of the others just want to argue with me because they just love an argument. You can see them all lurking in the wings waiting for a big argument to brew up. Astonishing.
No one denies that when God wills it the conversion can be instantaneous.

What we are struggling to understand, as with many of your posts, is precisely what point are you trying to make? Maybe you're finally beginning to side with decisional regeneration? Because that is how it comes over.

BTW - I was not lurking, waiting for you to trip up so that I can jump on you from a great height. I just happened to log on and catch your post.

So John UK - what is your point?

Connor7

I can only guess that unbelief was the only sin not atoned for.


News Item12/19/17 11:29 AM
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John UK

You admitted in your own case that it was some 5 days. You think now that that was too long? That somehow this could have been short cut to an instantaneous conversion?

Or are you arguing that no one need call upon the Lord, because the power to truly repent and believe lies within everyone's reach?

I'm struggling to understand what point you are making.

It sounds very much like you are arguing for a nod and a wink conversion.

Connor7

Yes, John UK does now believe in a universal atonement.

Sister ladybug

We are not told of God's preparatory work in the life of the jailor and so the whole idea that it was a 10 second conversion is silly. Even in the case of the apostle Paul, in what appears to be a dramatic and instantaneous conversion we are not told how long he had been kicking against the pricks (Acts 9v6).


News Item12/17/17 4:58 PM
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Christopher000 wrote:
Seems to me, according to the answers that I get, that this is how we were chosen...totally at random.
Romans 9

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The Lord has his reasons for choosing those that he did. All we know from the Scriptures is that his choice is not based on anything that we do or don't do - in other words, it is not based on anything in us; it is based solely upon something in him, and remember the Lord is absolutely righteous in all he does.


News Item12/17/17 1:14 PM
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BTW

I don’t think that folk who believe in free will are necessarily unbelievers. It could be that they’ve not studied the bible enough to know any different or that somehow they rationalise away the difficulties or even just ignore them.

It’s the people who believe they’re saved because they did something that I fear for because they clearly have no true conception of either the human condition or the greatness of God’s grace which is needed to bring a dead soul to life.


News Item12/17/17 1:04 PM
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Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

It’s a matter of faith Christopher. You don’t have to figure it out.

I have ideas how this could be, which Spurgeon also thought. Happy to share with you by email.


News Item12/17/17 11:02 AM
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Christopher000 wrote:
...some...chosen for eternal life, and most for destruction...
The bible leads us to believe otherwise. We know from the NT that the promises to Abraham were spiritual. Look at some of them:

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore...

Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven..... and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

I agree with Spurgeon, who commenting on the hosts in Heaven (Rev 14:1-3), says:

"Why, my friends, I believe there will be more in heaven than in hell. If you ask me why I think so, I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to “have the pre-eminence,” and I cannot conceive how he could have the pre-eminence if there are to be more in the dominions of Satan than in paradise. Moreover, it is said there is to be a multitude that no man can number in heaven; I have never read that there is to be a multitude that no man can number in hell".


News Item12/17/17 9:34 AM
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Christopher000 wrote:
....
So, if you both could ask me more direct questions, I could probably answer better. ...
...
Good morning brother.

Here is what you wrote to Ivan 12/16/17 8:02 AM

"I believe He chose/ elected, those to salvation based upon those He foreknew would receive His calling. This is the only way my finite mind can make sense of it."

My question to you is, since it is God who grants repentance and faith, how does his foreknowing to whom he would grant it help you?

The bible teaches unconditional election - viz. that God chose without regard to anything that the creature does, good or bad. But you see someone's choice as somehow determining God's actions. Hope you see the problem.

I will come back to the second part of your post viz. only a few being saved in another post later today.


News Item12/17/17 9:26 AM
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John for JESUS wrote:
Jim Lincoln...
The problem is who said to? There isn't anywhere in the Bible that says so.
Hmmmm

Someone hasn't read:

Matt 28

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This was a baptism that they were to perform and it is co-extensive with the preaching of the gospel.

The book of Acts confirms that they obeyed what the Lord had commanded.

Even Paul baptized, even though he came on the scene much later!:

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius


News Item12/16/17 5:06 PM
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Kev wrote:
... the secret things belong to Him but God does answer prayers when they are according to His will.
We can reduce this to 3 simpler truths:

1. God ordains the ends
2. God ordains the means to achieve those ends
3. Our prayers are part of the means.

God ordained from eternity to save. In the COG, the Father gave a people to the Lord Jesus to redeem. The Lord Jesus came and did all that was required to redeem them in life and death and then rose again and ascended to heaven. The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of Christ's redemption to those that the Father gave to the Lord Jesus.

We are saved by God - BUT - he uses means e.g. the word to quicken, preaching to instruct and edify, he uses the prayers of his people, he uses our experiences etc to draw us to himself.

Our prayers are part of his predestined purposes, which is why we MUST pray always.

____________________

Hey sisters MS and Ladybug. Lord bless.

___________________

Watcher

Speaking the truth in love is a heresy with some, or at least "unloving".

Presbyterian baby baptism is not a trivial error by any means, as I have demonstrated here in the past. It cuts to the heart of the gospel.


News Item12/16/17 2:21 PM
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Christopher000 wrote:
...
God choose a very few to save
....
The way I solve this for my own self, Ivan, is that I believe He chose/ elected, those to salvation based upon those He foreknew would receive His calling. This is the only way my finite mind can make sense of it.
Just curious Christopher, how do you know that God chose only a few to save? Also, since God is the one who grants repentance and faith, how does that help you escape your dilemma?

News Item12/16/17 10:24 AM
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Another Michael wrote:
Observer
What a cunning post
In other words, if what I describe is the Christ of the Bible, then you would want nothing to do with him despite the pious words "Fall on one's face before Jesus Christ who died on the Cross and rose again to save sinners and Worship Him".

Sure I smell TULIPs in the verses you quote.

1 Cor 15:3,4 - who is the us that Christ died for? It is those who have come to believe!

Heb 5:8,9 the source of salvation to all who obey him - precisely. Who will obey? The natural man who is averse to the things of God? How does the natural man, who is dead in sins and trespasses come to life without God working in his life? This is the grace that TULIP teaches about.

Luke 6:46 - More applicable to you than you think.

1 Timothy 1:5,6 - Discussing the central truths about God's glorious grace in Jesus Christ and how He determined to save innumerable souls from every tribe, tongue and nation is hardly turning aside to fruitless discussion. Your quoting this verse exposes your impiety and shallowness.


News Item12/15/17 8:32 PM
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Another Michael wrote:
.. I find a lot of people coming to me with their T.U.L.I.Ps; few with Christ
Michael

What if I could demonstrate from Christ's own words that he also taught the doctrines that are represented by the TULIP acronym? Would you then concede that you don't know that Christ and would it then be fair to surmise that you worship a different Christ which is perhaps why you don't like the doctrines represented by the TULIP acronym?


News Item12/15/17 6:43 PM
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Another Michael wrote:
...Scripture can be abused as a stumbling block ... isn't this one of the things Satan attempted on Jesus when he tempted Him in the wilderness?
And didn't the Pharisees and Sadducees abuse Scripture and from time to time throw Scripture and their interpretation of it in Jesus face?
Hi Michael

You are totally incoherent. I am sure what you are saying makes sense to you, but sadly you're not communicating anything to us readers.

Satan twisted the scriptures to tempt Christ, and the Pharisees and Sadducees erred greatly.

The Lord countered both Satan and the erring religious leaders of his day with scripture to correct and rebuke them. He didn't hide behind vague accusations of "lack of love" etc. He clearly explained how they twisted scripture or got it wrong.

Sadly, you're doing no such thing; in fact you're not even trying. I suspect that this is because you are not capable of doing it.

Frankly, your posts make sad reading. I am sure you do not recognise yourself in Kevin's posts, but I do. You need to take a long hard look at yourself before accusing anyone else here.

If you cannot handle the Word of God to defend your own position then please stop throwing stones at others who can.


News Item12/15/17 3:29 PM
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John Yurich USA wrote:
Pastor Steve of my Baptist Church has a problem with the Catholic Church and has a problem with the Mass.
Hey John

Do Pastor Steve and the Baptist church know that you're half Roman Catholic, and that you believe that they do have scriptural beliefs and therefore they are Christian and that you still attend Roman Catholic services and see no issues with that?

If not, be sure to mention all this as part of your testimony, if for no other reason than transparency. After all you wouldn't want to be dishonest now, would you?

And finally, since you have maintained all these years that membership is not necessary, what gives with this change of heart?

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