DJC49 wrote:
Before using psychological terminology [Freudian slip], first investigate and find out what it means. Then you won't uncover your stoopitity while attempting to appear erudite.
And BTW, the "heavenly scenario" was a necessary hypothetical one ... for the sake of having an "impossible" dialogue between to saints.

Capiche, now, PAL?

I will ask again -- to get back to the point in hand ...

"So PAL, when you heard the gospel command did God do the believing and repenting for you! You were entirely passive! Or, did you do the repenting and believing without the slighest notion that you were doing anything meritorious?"

Michael Hranek

pew view wrote:
Faith the Gift of GOD!
There are two who would "free" the will of man to spiritual decision.
One is man himself.
He does it to aspire beyond the merits of Christ Crucified.
(This is why man increases the range of Limited Atonement)
One is God!
He does it to prove the merits of Christ Crucified.
Ro 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
If you would choose one of these......
Then you will not be elected.

So how exactly does this prove that faith is a gift?

The greatest problem with "Reformed Calvinism" is that it uses (faulty) logic to determine doctrine instead of Scripture... and on these forums we have sufficient proof of this assertion.

DJC49 wrote:
.... I made it plain that the "2 heavenly saints" were boasting in their DECISIONS!
Read much?

DJC49 wrote:
The Scene: 2 saints in heaven both looking down at hell
....

DJC49 wrote:
The Scene: 2 saints in heaven both yada yada yada....

Why don't you busy yourself proving the point from the Bible instead of such pointless and ineffective fiction.

rogerant wrote:
.....The problem is that there is NO precise referent. ....

What the article that I linked to does is demonstrate that it is entirely consistent with other parts of scripture to say "salvation is ....not of works"... whereas there is no other passage which says " faith ...is not of works".

John UK wrote:
.....Mike, no matter how many times I read and meditate upon Ephesians 2:8, I can only see faith = the gift of God. It really doesn't read right if you make salvation = the gift of God. You're thinking of Romans 6:23, where eternal life = the gift of God

The reason you do not see it is because you have become so accustomed to reading it through Frenchie lenses.

Try reading the following article and hopefully you will remain a whole bible man.

The serpent's version of it!

Quote: "Evolution is not just a theory, as many a correspondent writes to me and says," Attenborough claims. "It is a historical fact like any other historical fact and as certain as the fact that William the Conqueror landed in 1066, except it's more certain because the evidence for it is from a much wider range of fact."

Lies and more lies! Tell a lie enough times and people will believe it. That's how evolutionists work.

Jessica Dawson wrote:
I know Jesus never sinned! That is why He is able to save! I really need prayer, my emotions are all over, I'm lonely. I left my last Church because the retired Pastor made a sexual joke in mine and in others hearing. I am hurting so much inside and really need support, I need a Pastor who is mature. A pastor who stands in righteousness and is married to a godly woman. O how I would really like the encouragement!

The world has invaded the churches and we are seeing the chaos on all hands.

rogerant wrote:
Calvinist Understanding
I would leave Michael Hranek alone if he would not consider it his mission in life to continually attack and misrepresent John Calvin, the WCF, and continually preach at us. As for his confession of not holding to a Arminian or Calvinist position, he has been asked on numerous occasions to post his position on election and defend it with scripture. DJC49 asked him numerous times last week, but he chose not to defend his doctrine.
BTW: Bishop J C Ryle was a Anglican Calvinist...

Surely the approach to take would be to prayerfully and patiently take portions of the word of God and exegete and explain them and leave the word of God, as applied by the Holy Spirit, to do its work. Why make matters personal? Why deal with people who don't agree with you as though the only difference between you and them is that you have a superior intellect, and that intellectual prowess is what is needed to arrive at a correct doctrinal position?

BTW. I know that J C Ryle was an Anglican calvinist. But I do not hold that against him

rogerant wrote:
Calvinist Understanding
I would leave Michael Hranek alone if he would not consider it his mission in life to continually attack and misrepresent John Calvin, the WCF, and continually preach at us. As for his confession of not holding to a Arminian or Calvinist position, he has been asked on numerous occasions to post his position on election and defend it with scripture. DJC49 asked him numerous times last week, but he chose not to defend his doctrine.
BTW: Bishop J C Ryle was a Anglican Calvinist...

If a doctrinal system is to be judged by its fruits and one constantly meets people who profess to espouse a particular system but whose behaviour is anything but Christian, then why should there be blame attached to the person who judges that particular system of belief to be false?

Additionally, as I have already stated, if you believe that the understanding
of spiritual truth is something given by the Holy Spirit, why do you take
umbrage when someone does not agree with you or your system or your favourite theologian or confession of faith?

Roger wrote:
.....I struggle daily with trying to walk the Christian life and would so much enjoy coming into these rooms and perhaps get some encouragement, etc..

The Christian life is a struggle because when we receive the new nature we begin to discover that we cannot get on with the world, we find a formidable foe in Satan who is bent on destroying us by any means, and that our worst enemy is our own hearts. To find ourselves to be our worst enemy is no small discovery.

But trust in the Lord for help. He will not fail you. Read his word every day. Discover and claim the promises of God by earnest prayer. Find others of like mind to share burdens. Make sure you are part of a good fellowship where people are fed by the word of God. Look for an avenue of Christian service. Be concerned for the lost - pray for them and witness. Exercise yourself in godliness and seek to be more holy and more devoted to the Lord. Be ever watchful against your own heart, and learn to be grateful for every mercy.. in fact look more on your mercies and learn to live a life of daily praise.

Read good books too. You could try Bishop J C Ryle on Holiness or Arnold Dallimore's life of Whitefield.

rogerant wrote:
But your God desires that everyone would be saved but can't do anything about it.....I could go on and on, but I must ask you, can your god actually save anyone?

What is your problem? Why don't you stop trying to put Michael into a convenient theological box. He has already said that he does not espouse Calvinism or Arminianism. So why do you post like you are writing to an Arminian?

You have an ideal opportunity here to exercise that grace that you keep harping on about. So why don't you listen, ask, pray and try some real interaction instead of this tiresome and interminable posturing.

Try and see the human being and Christian brother Michael Hranek, instead of some dupe that you have to convert to your system of belief.

If you truly believe that conviction of truth is a work of the Holy Spirit, then why not pray and seek to persuade by opening up the scriptures instead of this silly badgering and misrepresenting?

John UK wrote:
Ah well, the Bible does speak of this.
At least I've learnt a lot from this debate, and I hope the others come to grips with it as well. But perhaps they need to realise that to get the right answers they have to bend real low.
....

"In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight..."

For all their boasted brain power, is it not amazing that the simplest and plainest things written are beoynd their comprehension.

You have written innumerable posts explaining your position. I also posted something from Phil Johnson which should also have helped these guys to understand. You have now quoted from R C Sproul, but still they do not understand.

Do you suppose that this is because they have no heart to understand?

And to add insult to injury they are now calling you an arminian... mind you Roge Rant called me one as well. Quite what he has read from me to justify that charge I have no idea - but I'll bet neither does he.

SA moderator

rogerant wrote:
CLOWNS
...

rogerant wrote:
....That is why we encourage unbelievers to look to Christ for their salvation by faith alone, not your twelve step program that leaves them where they are. ...

Michael Hranek wrote:
....
Theologically I love his emphasis on Jesus Christ, his emphasis on Biblical faith.....

As a newbie to this site, I too am dismayed at the heartless and vicious Calvs on these forums, who as you say have no love to the lost and cannot help revealing this in their use of terms like "reprobate" to talk about the lost. They seem to live in a world of their own .. or should that be an ivory castle of their own.

I just wanted to write to encourage you, and to say that despite the impression that these forums may leave with you, there are many "moderate" DOG people in the world who love the God of the Bible, and who love lost souls and do their utmost to take the gospel to the lost. I would include John UK in this group.

I would rather fellowship with a man whose heart is right and warm, who may not have all the i's dotted and all the t's crossed, than someone who is theologically orthodox but has little or no heart for lost souls.

Mike wrote:
Is that "Dueling Banjos" I hear in the background?
C'mon guys. Don't you recognize the old man when he shows up?