1517 wrote: The American form of government is the result of influential frameworks devised by Locke and apparent in Rutherford‚Äôs Lex Rex. I would add the Roman jurisprudence and Christian moral base.
Surely 'influences' are collected about through the passing of history but it is a folly to believe that those sources constitute the blue print of present forms of government.
E.g. Western Democracy as it stands today deprived of moral value, say right and wrong, is not a concept precisely derived from the Bible or that Locke or Rutherford approved off.
US Apologies accepted
Please, think again about point 3. Peoples under Hitler were convinced facism was the correct world view, people under Mao defended communistic outlooks, the Mayflower compound accepted the Puritan outlook, and so on.
A republican democracy is what is been sold to the Americans today, and it is believed to be the best by the average American, in spite of outrageous rulings being passed as laws without public consent, or questionable arm conflict plans being hoisted on the economy.
How are the electing campaigns of the candidates financed?
The French Revolution was an antecedent to the American one, parallel to the one that did not prosper in Ireland.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Apparently for one living on the British Isles you have not heard of the Magna Carta, John Locke, or Lex Rex by Samuel Rutherford The American Revolution was the exact opposite of the French Revolution
Please abstain from forms of bullying as this is a condition for any accepted interaction.
There is a difference between the sources you mention and the spirit of the French revolution embedded in the words written,
'government is describes as being of, by & for the people, one could argue that we all are he government'
The pre-reformation document known as the Carta Magna dealt with the blue print to curtail arbitrary governement in the days when the Popes demanded England's indiscriminatorily tithing from King John. Locke, writting from a williamite frame of mind which included Bible teaching, wrote about the moral obligation to resist despots in governement.
However the French revolution being a reacting spirit to the RC despotic reigns of France wished to supplant moral law with secularised man-centered values of fraternity, liberty and equality.
There is a subtle, but real difference.
There would not be today a USA had not a French revolution spirit influenced the drama of the conflict sustained.
Joel wrote: What do you prioritize? Christmas, Easter, or the Lord‚Äôs Supper. Only one is commanded in Scripture‚ÄĒthe Lord‚Äôs Supper. Many ‚ÄėChristians‚Äô put so much more emphasis, time, energy, preparation, thought, excitement, and anticipation into christianized pagan holidays and rituals while ignoring Christ‚Äôs clear command to remember Him in His Supper. How many times have you missed the Lord‚Äôs Supper and thought nothing of it? How many times have you missed Christmas or Easter and thought nothing of it? See the difference. We highly esteem our man-made holidays but disregard the commandments of Christ! It‚Äôs not just a little nibble of bread and a little insignificant sip of juice. It‚Äôs a memorial to remember Christ and His love. Moreover, Christ commands that we remember Him in this way. We are so humanistic that we put more emphasis on our own ways of celebrating Christ than use the ways that He has laid out for us in the Scriptures.
Some interesting thinking
*** Poster bellow, Please, cease from harassing the children of God. This is a practice akin to the job the accusser of the brethren is continually at, which Sanballat engaged in too.
John UK wrote: ... actions speak louder than words
"... let none that wait on thee be ashamed: let them be ashamed which transgress without cause. Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths. Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation"
Peace to them walking in Truth, as nothing shall offend them
"Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them" Psalm 119:165
James Thomas wrote: I see I only had one sip of coffee when I posted this. Let me edit my phrasing there in my last post. *but some feel that its necessary to impose their conscience on others and they should not celebrate like they do not.*
Have you ever heard of Christian apologetics? It is presenting the reason for one's beliefs, and this medium acting as a Christian Forum renders such opportunity. Nothing wrong with this, and it is nothing near about imposing your beliefs or debate, but showing by proper and useful means for instance when someone gets away using as proof of their points dubious sources which need challenged for what they are, forgeries.
The problem is when evidence gets into people's nerves becoming hard to handle.
On the other hand, is truth an absolute or conditional to one's opinion? If it were the later, we then can agree to disagree; if is an absolute there is ongoing flawed perception which apologetics brings to light.
Dr. Tim wrote: Harassment, BMc? A ridiculous charge. It‚Äôs you and your ilk who are harassing people, browbeating them with your baseless accusations of paganism and Roman Catholicism. Why don‚Äôt you quit assailing people with your personal opinions parading about as ‚Äútruth‚ÄĚ?
Sir, you forget this is an open forum to express opinion. No one is obliged to answer or participate.
Lamentably, in spite of your agreeable doctrinal mouthfuls, your behaviour displayed by the lack of respect sometimes borthering abuse, and your unsavoury unwillingness to accept just and fair criticism on topics you disagree, make some of us at times to doubt your authentic Christian profession.
If you are a child of God this comment will bring you to shame and earnest concern. Yet if you are not, this will only bring up the anger of your temper in piles of hurting sarcasm, harassment and abuse.
God treats men accordingly, see
"With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks"
This should be a guidance for each one here. With regret
Just a repeated word of caution as brother John has brought to you recently. Harassment does not proceed from Christian love, maturity or Christian character. Only infants and the world entertain such. With regret
Throughout the passing of time, almost globally, the winter solstice attracted the dark arts, which within each culture came manifested with different customs, practices and superstitions, at the same time that each culture was influenced by the previous or by other ongoing cultures around. So the making of Christmas does owe its existence to time
However, the culture Pearce does not fuss about in his article are the Druids from which the Wiccan Christmas borrows much.
The Druids were entrenched in Chaldean magic but putting not things in writing,information about them is often obtained by the deductive method. However their practices at this time of the year were the more bearing accross Celtic Europe including the Germanic peoples.
On the other hand, Hippolytus' excerpt quoted here from his Commentary of Daniel sounds very much unlike him when compared to his logic, rationale and writing style displayed in his other work called 'Refutation of all Heresies'
Much of our Babylon system would be quite sore to see gain collapsing if Christmas did not exist as
"The merchants of these things ... were made rich by her" Rev. 18
On observing the fervor for its defence, one can perceive that the spirit of Christmas is as addictive as an intoxicating spirit.
1. This site provides evidence of the none reliable origins and source of book number 4 of Hippolytus commentary of Daniel, which by the way, in general is not a trust worthy work containing inaccuracies, embellishments and fantasy.
2. On the other hand monks in old monasteries were not only known for being gullibable, but for producing forgeries to support the views of the church they adhered to by adding to the texts they handled .
3. Additionally chronicon.net is not accesisable neither the translator of the work, Thomas Coffman Schmidt's whereabouts specified.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Sure, ran out of characters. THe first is the translation of the commentary and the quote is on page 140. The second is th site that noted this information. https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/0205_hippolytus_commentary-on-daniel_2010.pdf?fbclid=IwAR11gvqaKZohqujy-046aLQ0xTKstalWIuQdRNtSspOLlIaGhFCnbWvXtN4 https://thetransformedwife.com/christmas-was-not-originally-a-pagan-holiday/
Do the sources you quote document their information? Please, find out the *primary* sources they use.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: ‚ÄúThere is a myth circulating that Christmas was originally a pagan holiday.
‚ÄúHere is a quote from Hippolytus of Rome in his commentary on Daniel, written around 202 AD: ‚ÄúFor the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.‚ÄĚ ‚ÄúHere we have a claim from the very beginning of the third century that Christ was born on December 25th. This may or may not be the real date of Christ‚Äôs birth. But we do know that Christians were claiming this day as the date Christ was born at least as early as 202 AD. ‚ÄúThe festival of Sol Invictus began in 274 AD, some 72 years later. Thus, if there were any borrowing going on, the pagans stole the date from the Christians, not the other way around.
Please can you provide the primary sources for your information?
1517 wrote: Weird how a celebration of Christ‚Äôs advent is somehow ‚Äúdeceptive‚ÄĚ or ‚Äúmisleading‚ÄĚ because of peripheral aspects (day, separate and dead pagan unrelated rituals). What do the naysayers think of the biblical carols associated with the holiday? Should Christians avoid singing ‚ÄúO Holy Night‚ÄĚ, parts of Handel‚Äôs ‚ÄúMessiah‚ÄĚ and other Advent specific carols?
Sir. For all the content some carols have to offer, as the one you mention, 'Silent night', there is no worry in dismissing them for good.
A small number of carols as 'Joy to the world' which was written not as a Carol but as a paraphrase of Ps. 98, or 'Hark, the herald angels sing' written by Wesley as an Anglican following the church calendar tradition, can be sung all year round without any problem. So the Meshiah which was not originally prepared as a Christmas oratorio.
John UK wrote: Nonconformist churches of various stripes, whether they be IFB, SBC, WCF, or 1689, or even Free Evangelical, they all have something in common: they all claim to be following the scripture as the final authority ... Sad to say, I no longer believe their claim. What they ought to be saying is that in most things they are following scripture, but in other things they are still following tradition. And one of those other things is the Christmas celebration... fantasy land, dreamed up by the serpent.
Surely. Lifestyles are cemented, tradition having a strong pull hard to break. Answers to the obvious are not reckoned with, but pretexts abound because minds are set on stone while saying that this yearly engagement accomplishes 'nothing'. The least accomplished is a good warning as the prophets gave.
The curious thing is how Christmas has to be wished or redenred as 'happy' when in reality everyone procures the best gratifiying experience for self. So of course it turns up a 'merry' event by self fabrication.
When all you have is the high of a season it has to be brought up many times after, but the believer walking in peace with God has his good mercies at hand each day, even there is no one to wish a happy day.
Dr. Tim wrote: ... it will continue to be unprofitable...
Sir, had the Reformers cleared off completely from the relics of Rome regarding the issue of the church calendar which included their Christ mass, the evangelicals of today, including Baptists which preffer not to be identified as of their offspring, would not have upon their necks the bondage of Christmas celebrations. This, along child baptism among other issues, they had not enough insight to dismiss.
May this example of them serve us to question if generations to come in 200 years time from today, the Lord tarring, will reap from ourselves the same regrets.
If this were so, it will proof how Unprofitable we have been to them. It is a fact that what we tolerate in moderation our children bring out into excess in each generation. Christmas celebration is not a NT practice or ordinance.
Your enjoyable Christmas 'worship' at this time of the year, has not been always at this height. Religiously it has developed from a ritualistic, semi pagan Roman mass, to a commercial season knowing no boundries. Atheists and believer partaking of the same and all in the name of a caricature of the doctrine of his coming dislocating his birth into a disjointed preminance.