Well I said something similar to this once before and it was misinterpreted, but I will try again. It doesnât make any difference to me whether or not the state mandates anything for me. If they tell me to do something that I believe is against the word of God, then I will not only disobey, but I am obligated to disobey whatever they tell me to do.
In the world we live in that will likely result in some type of punishment. But what an honor it would be to suffer for the sake of Christ and His word. Persecution is something that most in America do not experience.
So, if I believe that vaccines are wrong, then I wonât take one and I will argue against them. If I believe they serve a health purpose and they are not against scripture, then I will take one.
The government does have power and authority to protect its citizens; e.g. the military, police, building codes and on and on. Each of us will decide when to obey and when not to.
Personal experience. When I went into the military they mandated that I get certain shots from pretty much day one. Had I not taken those shots, I would have been discharged immediately. The same thing when I went to Germany and then later to VN. Yes, they had the authority to do that.
MS wrote: Hello Frank- I would agree with your post concerning victimology.But, that is not the case here on this forum. There are a couple of male posters who are very condescending in their comments to female posters as well as male.It smacks of self-righteousness.I will leave it there. I have not had that sort of engagement with you or several other posters who are quite gracious in their interaction with me. With that said, iâll leave it be. Hope all is well with you and yours.
Yes, my wife and I are doing fine. We have been so blessed by the Lord. Thanks for mentioning that. And I pray you and your loved ones are doing well also. My guess is since you live in a less populated area, things are pretty normal.
I agree with you. Victimology is not always the reason. But, it does also happen on this forum.
MS wrote: True. How far from Christâs conduct towards women. Some seem to make it their bent to silence our voices and chase us away from this public forum, by their disparaging remarks.
There is a concept known as victimology. What that means is that someone believes what is happening to them is based not on merit, but on who they are. The usual victim groups are women, blacks, Hispanics. When I was working it was common if someone in one of those groups didnât get promoted, to cite their ethnicity or genders as the reason. IOW, they simply couldnât say I didnât deserve this. Now, that was not always the case, but it was very common.
There is also a concept known as introspection.
I personally enjoy reading womenâs comments. I think a feminine perspective is important to finding truth.
There are different ways of looking at this issue. I am simply someone who denounces what I refer to as cultural Christianity. Being born in a particular country is âspirituallyâ meaningless.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Isaiah 40:15 Behold, the nations [are] as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
Isaiah 40:17 All nations before him [are] as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
I like you John consider myself to be a stranger and alien in this lost and fallen world. People somehow think that this country was founded as a Christian nation. I sometimes ask them why and they say because the constitution uses the name of God or because many of our founding fathers were Christians. Anyway, I believe this nation was founded as a pluralistic nation and not as a Christian nation. There are no Christian nations that have ever existed.
There are no abominations that arenât legal here and practiced by millions of people â none. And yes, there are Christians that live here and in every society on the face of this earth. Praise His holy name!
I think the key is you and I consider ourselves to be Pilgrims!
B. McCausland wrote: Yes, sir, when you infer your blind trust of health care to the state you are practicing a form of 'christianised' statism. It is the nanny state you are advocating then, which the bible does not endorse. *** Perhaps what it is assumed is that on refusing vaccination the program as a whole is jeopardized, not the individual
When I said that no one would come to your conclusion, I was obviously not excluding you.
And scripture stops me from debating anything with you.
The world views a working woman as a successful woman. When they get married, have children and are keepers at home they are viewed as the enemy by the feminist movement. What this means is feminists find no sense of fulfillment in doing what God has ordained for them to do.
Men are also culpable as they allow and even encourage their wives to work. Their living standards are higher this way and they donât have to worry about providing for their families.
Having children is now an inconvenience for women. The real war against women is to make them relevant in ways that God didnât intend.
Are there exceptions to my thoughts here? Sure there are and satan takes those exceptions and makes them the rules.
B. McCausland wrote: Sorry, with this it seems you believe in the Big Brother theory, say statism. God given role and intent for governement is to do justice and punish evil not to child mind its population. This not only denies personal initiative, and accountability, but also it immunizes individuals' consciences against their responsibility towards right and wrong.
No BM, there is nothing I said that would lead anyone to think I believe in statism.
John UK wrote: It's easy to be Gung Ho until people start dying. Then it becomes time for serious thought and decision-making.
Yes brother, it is easy to obey our consciences until that obedience costs us something we treasure. In the Western world, that is usually our finances or our health. Or in extreme cases it could mean our loved ones.
I like to think of a person during the inquisition who was being burned at the stake simply because he denied the mass was literally the body of Christ. Just think what they must have felt as they looked out into the crowd and saw their wives and children. During that time in history, the wives would have no means of support outside of their husbands.
Now, that is faith that is pleasing to our heavenly Father.
I believe that the state has not only the right, but the obligation to protect society. That means, if it is believed that I should get a vaccination, then I and my family should undergo vaccinations. At the same time, if I sincerely believe that getting a vaccination was sinful, then I must refuse. What this means to me is if I refuse, I must be held legally liable for doing that. The state cannot enter into this individual struggle.
Now if my decision was because I believe the scriptures mandated that I disobey, then my heavenly Father will be pleased and shall give me peace regardless of what I experience.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
There is nothing spiritually wrong with being fined or imprisoned because of my faith.
We should be aware that cleverly designed arguments that might even include partial truths, but draw people away from Godâs absolute truths, are more evil than all the outright lies ever spoken or written. This is the way the catholic church and all cultic churches operate. What this means to me is the RCC will warn people of the coming apostasy and at the same time help to orchestrate it.
Mike wrote: If with the Lord a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years, and keeping the same ratio of comparison, perhaps with the Lord 2500 years is as 2.5 days. Would it seem out of bounds to think of it in such a way? We think of the 400 year captivity, and consider that for likely 300 or so of those years, all those who were responsible in any way for getting into that predicament were dead. Why did their descendants remain captive? God has his own timetable, whether it makes sense to our understanding of not. Personally, I can't say I always like it, but he is God, and what is true, is true.
Thanks Mike for your wise comment. I have often pondered the concept of the thousand years as one day principle. I especially did that when I used to study the rapture and other end times issues. God is simply in control and mankind are ones who often think He isnât. I do not understand Godâs timetable, but like you I simply try and praise His name for His sovereignty.
Youth in Asia wrote: Would anyone here want trade places with them? If not, what are you doing with the blessings that God gave you? If they have been called to sacrifice, should your sacrifices be even greater? And people here are upset that I call western christianity a mess, when the standards are already set by these brethren. I wish more could be done for them, I guess many Korean Pentacostal churches already do their best to reach them, and pray for them, praise God for that! If these so called "weak" denominations do so much, what are we to say about the Baptists, the Presbyterians who have so much resources, bible education and blessings?
When I was first saved, I attended Pentecostal/Charismatic churches off and on. I finally decided they were heretical and stopped going. As a âgeneralâ rule they adhere to the following:
1.They believe that salvation can be lost. 2.They have women preachers and teachers. 3.They believe that if someone hasnât been baptized into the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, they are second class Christians. IOW, they cannot serve in positions of leadership, etc. 4.They treat God like some kind of genie. They say and do the right things and God will give them their requests.
James Thomas wrote: 1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: I will let you read the rest of the chapter for yourself but I've never read anywhere in Scripture where those who had the mark of the beast would be different from those who are children of the devil. Are you aware of any?
No, I agree that those who receive the mark of the beast will be spiritually the same as the children of the devil.
Andrew wrote: Jared the son in law of Trump paid a lot of money to secure the 666 building. The real ID is going to pass and soon people will have to comply with ID verification to work. Trump has a higher chance of establishing the peace deal in the middle east and is closer to fulfilling the prophesy. I personally do not believe it is him, but so far he is closest to the antichrist than anyone so far. He has a an army of false prophets and he has a mouth of a dragon, but I do not believe he is the one.
Thanks for presenting your points. Let me add that I heard him on TV say: "I am the chosen one"
I personally think the antichrist will be a secular Muslim? But no one really knows.
Jim Lincoln wrote: excerpt from, "How to Understand âObamagateâ" https://tinyurl.com/y7279fpv By the way, https://tinyurl.com/y98kda9r (Coronavirus update: Barack Obama publicly criticises coronavirus response, doesn't explicitly mention Donald Trump) Carl
Jim, do you know that 95% of African Americans voted for Obama. How is that remotely possible? What would you think if let's say 95 percent of whites voted for a white candidate over a black one?
James Thomas wrote: I'm glad to here you and wife are fine. God is meeting our needs as He promised, even through this rough time. As far as the mark of the beast, I think the worshipping the creature passage in Romans is not different than the worshipping the beast in the Revelation. And furthermore the mark set on Cain in Genesis 4 is one in the same as the one mentioned in the Revelation.
Well brother, the only way you could reach a conclusion that mark of Cain is synonymous with the mark of the beast is by using a faulty hermeneutic. I will leave it at that.
James Thomas wrote: Thanks for your post Bro Frank. Worship the beast and his image and I don't think anyone would disagree is the polar opposite of the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. In Rom 1:25 Those Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator should be looked to
Well said brother and thanks for the concurrence. I pray you and your family are safe and all your needs are being met. My wife and I are doing fine!