Frank wrote: No BM, there is nothing I said that would lead anyone to think I believe in statism.
Yes, sir, when you infer your blind trust of health care to the state you are practicing a form of 'christianised' statism. It is the nanny state you are advocating then, which the bible does not endorse.
Perhaps what it is assumed is that on refusing vaccination the program as a whole is jeopardized, not the individual
Jim Lincoln wrote: Not getting vaccinations is still putting other people in danger.
This is a half truth.
The vaccinated ones apparently have nothing to fear, and the ones who take the free choice of declining the injection on the grounds of potential harmful material are safe also in their own way. In reality both take a conscious risk.
Vaccination is presented as a personal self protection, with the intended potential of curtailing the spread of the disease, yet on epidemiology grounds, either one accepts that all viruses are innate to creation, except one believes in evolution, or accepts lab twicking of the same, leading to revenew vaccination in the effort of eliminating a particular strand, only to yield to the next.
Adriel, you are creating a strawman instead of answering the question. No one is putting God's absolute sovereignty into question, but we are considering man's responsibilities against unlawful intrusion of power. God will fulfil his plans through it all, yet right and wrong should not be jeopardized.
Frank wrote: I believe that the state has not only the right, but the obligation to protect society.
Adriel wrote Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
Sorry, with this it seems you believe in the Big Brother theory, say statism.
God given role and intent for governement is to do justice and punish evil not to child mind its population. This not only denies personal initiative, and accountability, but also it immunizes individuals' consciences against their responsibility towards right and wrong.
Adriel What happens when governments overstep their God given role?
John, there is little that can be done except creating awareness which is probably what Chris is doing.
Appealing to the lesser magistrate in true democratic settings might be an option.
However, let's not dismiss divine intervention while engaged in prayer and supplication with the fortitude and approach of the 3 Hebrew children, which is quite different to dismissing the issue as of no significant relevance.
It is not in vain we were taught to pray "deliver us from evil". God can stay the tide. This said, it could be of the Lord's design to try the peoples of the earth by such happenings, or even purify his own.
Revelation 3:10 "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to *try them that dwell upon the earth*."
Jeremiah Montgomery in his latest sermon 'Contextualization in Apologetics' (SA) mentions the origins of statism in the USA from the 1940's, this is the worship of the State as it were which easily explains the ongoing unquestionable reliance on the same. The concept makes the 'worship of the beast' not too remote from reality.
John UK wrote: 1.... I am unable to formulate the events future from scripture, nor do I feel any desire to wade through the muddy slough of man-made schools of thought on the subject.
2."Wake up and do what, exactly?" ... What is the practical application of what Chris was saying? Prepare for death? Imprisonment? Fines? Exclusion?
Thanks, John for your frankness and patience.
1. No one of us should. This is what dispensationalism tries to, but did not the Lord say that for the hour or times is not for us to know ... but it is in the Father's power?
2. The evident efforts towards a global survellience of individuals with compulsory tatoo vaccinations make bad news, John. Pretribulationists can boast all they want, but it is not the first time in history when socio-political powers pin pointed people who disagreed, with banning, death, the lose of privileges as the right to buy, sell or employment, leading to destitution, exile or elimination if they did not comply. We only need to think about the Roman persecutions, the dissenters, Bunyan, the Waldensians, the Inquisition, Hitlerism, Comunistics regimes, Islamic states, etc.. The present schemes point to the same - it is an evil hour and people should be aware of such reality.
Mike wrote: I don't know why anyone would have issues with truth being told, even if uncomfortable. It's almost as if the call to resist the devil and he will flee from you has been so spiritualized that we fail to see, or refuse to see him working through his flesh and blood helpers. Why is that?
John, mine is not a futuristic view of 'prophesy' as a system.
All prophesy has been fulfilled in Christ and what has yet to follow is the gathering up of the spoils of it as it were, fulfilling the rest the OT prophets detailed.
What we have in the NT are warnings, advice, signs, directives, some specific or general trends and tendencies, currents that repeat themselves, or powers and agendas in action as described with the symbolic gender of Revelation.
For instance, Christ warned about false christs, (anointed ones), false brethren, and prophets, and fraudulent workers.
He warned about intrinsic persecution as a given with the assurance of his coming as the fulfilment of all things.
Tyranny, scarcity, oppression, and tribulation come in waves fulfilling God's purposeful disciplines, chastening and purification of his own in different periods.
The *wake up* of today has to do with what Christ warned about: 'watch and pray'. Yeah watch the wickedness about and pray to be delivered from evil.
The command "do not be deceived" permeates to this day.
Disclaimer. Matthew 24 should be seen in the light of 70 AD