The powers that be tell the Chinese to kill their babies, does Watcher suggest that believers are to obey that command because that power is ordained of God? The powers that be in Muslim countries command you be one, are Christians supposed to obey that command because it it is from ordained powers?
Here is the command (no loopholes)
Forsake NOT the assembling of yourselves together.
But a Christian is to obey man more than God?
Read the context please
â€śFor rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:â€ť
how is shutting down a church service not a terror to good works and a solace to evil. Remember if they do this to one congregation regardless of beliefs they will be able to do to all.
The passage clearly says DO THAY WHICH IS GOOD and you will have praise not persecution of the same.
the Bible is clear, I am sorry but as far as I can see brother Watcher is not.
Nick wrote: This is of the topic of the article, but MacArthur's "lordship salvation" has some theological issues. For example, he confuses some of Christ's requirements for discipleship with His requirements for salvation.
Two questions please (just addressing your post have no idea what MacArthur has stated)
Could you give an example where the Lord makes a distinction between being a disciple and being saved?
Into which category would the following quote from the Lord fall, in your thinking?
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall man give in exchange for his soul"
It does no good to say one is taking the high road by not voting.Â Â Your insurance, car, internet service, cellular service, cellphone, computer, grocery chain, etc. etc. are all run by ungodly individuals who support the wicked policies of the LBQT, are in support of abortion,Â Â and a host of other things that go against Biblical practices.Â Â So, donâ€™t pat yourself on the back for your spirituality because you wonâ€™t support an ungodly politician as all it shows is your hypocrisy by not using the same measuring stick in other areas of your life.
Â Â In reality supporting a candidate doesnâ€™t mean you support his lifestyle anymore than buying a product means you support the companies political goalsÂ Â I own many Apple products, that doesnâ€™t mean I support their leftist agenda.Â Â My wifeâ€™s computer is Windows based and has MS Office, that doesnâ€™t mean we are in agreement with Bill Gates.Â Â Â Â
If you donâ€™t want to vote that is your choice.Â Â You would do well to not try and bind the consciences ofÂ Â other believers in shackles to your thinking when they are trying to obey God by choosing the candidates that will do the most good.Â Â (Again see Galatians 6:10)Â Â That is the standard, not the lesser of two evils, but which willÂ Â do the greater good.
As one pointed out we are not citizens of earth journeying to heaven, we are citizens of heaven journeying on earth.Â Â The Bible clearly says,As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith (Gal. 6:10)
Whether we like it or not, whether we agree with it or not, we are currently under a two party system here in the States.Â Â For your vote (an opportunity to do good) to matterÂ Â it will support either the Democrat or the Republican candidates for government.
The Democrats have clearly showed their disdain for Christians while Trump has supported them.Â Â The Democrats have clearly showed their support for the killing of babies while Trump has been pro-life.Â Â The Democrats have wanted judges to write the law (the job of the legislative branch) while Trump has appointed judges who interpret the law according to the Constitution.Â Â Why would you turn down an opportunity to do good to others and fellow believers?
Neither party is doing a great job.Â Â Frankly they both stink (with notable exceptions for certain individuals). We donâ€™t place our hope in politicians, we look to God from whence comes our help. Faith produces works.
It is interesting that some posters are making out voting for a candidate a sin.Â Â Â
Trump is not running on a platform supporting blasphemy or infidelity or gambling any more than Biden is running on a platform for sniffing women and influence peddling for your kid.Â Â
Frank has very often correctly pointed out that a person running on strictly Christian principles would not be elected into office
We live, by Godâ€™s grace, in a fallen world ruled by fallen men.Â Â There was not government set up during Biblical times where power to govern was controlled by those who were to be governed.Â Â It was always those who governed ruling over the citizens not the those who governed being subject to the citizens.Â Â (We have strayed very far from this) Thus we are in a situation outside of specific Biblical instruction .Â Â We must follow Biblical principles.Â Â Â You cannot rightly establish participating in government as a sin from Scripture.Â Â Elijah, at Godâ€™s direction, even aided theÂ Â ungodly king of Israel (a blasphemer) against the Syrians. Does that mean Elijah supported evil?
Doc, first want to join the others in saying praying for your family
After the fall human will, thinking and feeling became slaves to the fallen nature of man.Â Â Remember Scripture says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.Â Â Romans 6 reminds us we were servants to sin (a servant is not free).Â Â They would not because it is not in man according to I Corinthians 2 to understand spiritual things in and of his own self.Â Â When a sinner comes to the Lord we see his response, what is unseen to us is the convicting and quickening work of the Holy Spirit, the drawing work of the Father, and the cleansing work of the Son.Â Â Remember only God can grant the necessary faith and repentance.
Spurgeon has a sermon entitled Free will a slave.Â Â I am sure there are numerous places you can find the transcript of it.Â Â It is read here if you want to listen.
Ladybug wrote: You can't seem to comprehend what was stated USâ€¦..
No the fact that God expects a response has been shown to be Biblical and your only argument against it is that you think it is Arminian. It is senseless to say God needs to open my understanding to your opinion.
Why would God demand a response if He already knows?
Ever read Genesis 3?
What part of â€śWho are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoptionâ€¦Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Rom 9:25Â Â As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.â€ť Do you not understand? The passage deals with national not personal election. Context IS important.
It would take multiple posts to show you that God lays out a command and tells the people they should obey it and also lays out consequences for not obeying it. Read your Bible, you canâ€™t miss it. (Genesis 22:18;Joshua 1:8; Luke 11:28; I John 5:2&3)
I have never based what I have posted on anotherâ€™s theological leanings, so please drop the accusation. But you are right about one thing, the discussion is nothing but a dead end and you are entitled to your opinion. Good day.
This has been bothering me for several days so please excuse my â€śrantâ€ť.
I see this all too often. The topic that brought me into this thread was the fact that God commands, in this case to repent and believe, demand a response from the hearer. I never deviated from that in my discussion. To be honest, it is ludicrous to suggest otherwise. Actions have consequences (see Galatians 6:7&8) To say a passage that is specifically speaking about the national election of Israel (see Romans 9:4 and note the thought is continued in 9:24-30) means that God doesnâ€™t expect a response is simply bad hermeneutics.
Ladybug never could find a single word in any of my posts that showed I denied the truth of election or the necessity of the work of God in regeneration but apparently because she could not disprove my points showing that the passages clearly taught there was expected response by the hearer (Greek active voice) I somehow got off on an unnecessary â€śrabbit trailâ€ť and what false accusations did I state in any post??????
Then for her out she says, well this is my last word, you are not worth the discussion. Well thanks.
Ladybug the Scriptures clearly teach God expects a response. He said He chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe, He said faith comes by hearing, Read Paulâ€™s command and message in Acts 26:15-20. It is plain teaching of Scripture and the passage in Romans 9 does not negate that. No rabbit trails, no games, no false accusations just the truth of the Word of God. Thank you for your time.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Quote anything I have posted that shows I do not acknowledge that please
Since ladybug cannot seem to find where I denied the truth of election or the necessity of the work of God in redemption in any of my posts, it is because it doesnâ€™t exist. Furthermore because she cannot show that I did not rightly divide the Word of truth by demonstrating that God does expect actions (responses) to be done by the hearers of His commands (James 1:22)and that in the Greek it is clear when it uses the Active voice that the subject is the doer of the action, I will state that by the grace of God I have given sound doctrine.
Thanks for your time and patience ladybug. If you donâ€™t see the need for a response that is clearly taught in Scripture then maybe I am not communicating it well. I have never said that a person can be saved outside of Divine work. Good day my sister.
At no point has anything I have posted said or implied that the one who receives Christ did so of their own volition apart from Divine grace. The Bible clearly says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. We rejoice in that truth and so should you.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The command to repent tis in the imperative mood but again the active voice. The same is true in Acts 3:19
ThisÂ Â is what saith the Scriptures not so called Arminianism.
The same active voice imperative mood is found in Matthew 26 where our Lord admonishes Peter, James, and John to watch and pray. The need to do both was the responsibility of the disciples as our Lord was doing both.Â Â
The command to flee fornication (I Corinthians 6:18) same pattern active voice imperative mood.Â Â It is us who have been given the command that need to flee Examples could go on and on, but the Scriptural teaching is always those who hear the command must respond, the hearers are the ones who are acting in response to what they heard. Isaiah 30:18
And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
Dear sister ladybug thank you for taking the time to respond.Â Â What a blessing it must be to have a group of learned friends with whom you can consult about spiritual things on FB.Â Â
I am not that familiar with Arminian beliefs and so never base my thinking on their doctrinal bent.Â Â Â Let us consider what the Scripture says for correct understanding.Â Â
Luke 13 3&5
I tell you, Nay: but, except *ye repent*, ye shall all likewise perish.
To use your analogy, into whose court did the Lord put the ball?Â Â While we know repentance is from God (Acts 11:18) He did not say except I grant you repentance (which is the only way they would have repented) He said except YOU repent.Â Â Again in the Greek the verb repent (which is indeed an action verb) is in the active voice which as previously noted means the subject (ye) is the doer of the action.Â Â Â
Whom did our Lord call to repentance?Â Â I can not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
What did Paul preach (Acts 26). But showed thatâ€¦they (Gentiles) should repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentance
Thanks sister ladybug. The truth of one Scripture does not â€śdo away â€ś with the other. Scripture is the best commentary on itself. The passage you cited in Romans 8 clearly defines which whosoever will call in Romans 10. I have never denied that or said anything to the contrary. But youâ€™ll look in vain for a giving of the gospel in the Bible that does not tell the unregenerate that they must act on the truth they have been told. You correctly point out that a response of saving faith doesnâ€™t come apart from the regenerating work of God. Jesus said except ye likewise repent, ye shall perish. That doesnâ€™t make void that true repentance is granted by God. Repentance that comes from self is what Judas and Esau had. The hope of the gospel is that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. The glory of election is that of those who hear the gospel those that are ordained to eternal life will believe our labor is not in vain