"Charles Spurgeon, in his preface to the 1689 London Baptist Confession"

Joe T. wrote:
Quote by Samual Hopkins 1721-1803 from Regeneration And Conversion.

"I. The only ground and reason of regeneration, or of the necessity of the regenerating influences of the Spirit of God, in order to men’s converting and embracing the gospel, is the total depravity and corruption of the heart of man in his natural, fallen state...

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
For those who are interested in reading the older, puritan view, of "Regeneration", please refer to:
[URL=http://www.ccel.org/ccel/charnock/instr_regen/files/instr_regen.html]]]Of the Word, the Instrument of Regeneration[/URL]

(A Discourse of the Nature of Regeneration by Stephen Charnock)

DJC49 wrote:
ml --
I've read all your posts today and in my estimation you have a good understanding of Acts 10. And I don't know why Calvinist Understanding is arguing with you.
BTW, even AS CHRISTIANS we have commands to fear. Eph 5:21 for example. And the Greek word there is phobos - from where we get the word phobia.

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
So Fear is now a certain sign of the Spirit's work? Wow! We have fallen a long way from the Gospel preaching of the Great Awakening.
Tell me ML have you read any accounts of the Great Awakening? Do you know how many thought themselves the subjects of some work of grace because they feared, and how the Evangelists would labour the point that fear in and of itself counted for very little. The Gospel command is not fear but repent and believe?
Even devils fear!

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
(Act 10:34-35)

You said "Many religious people are religious because they fear God, many of them even follow the true Protestant religion without a conversion experience, but one would not dare say that they had any genuine work of the Spirit of God."

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
Why could he not have been simply a moral and religious person that God chose to save from among the gentiles in a rather special way to make him a teaching tool for Peter? IOW that his conversion was sudden and bore no relation to the character traits mentioned of him prior to Peter's sermon? That's how it reads to me.

pew view wrote:
ml
Good point!
But may I add - If we are saying that the HOLY Spirit did some work in Cornelius prior to Peter's arrival - Are we then saying that the Holy Spirit left until Peter came and preached - Then returned to work faith in Cornelius's heart?
Faith is wrought in the heart of the saved BY the Holy Spirit. We are back to the question, - Faith the GIFT of God? - or was all this human effort by human faculty done by a sinner, dead in his sins?

But does God prepare hearts before one comes to salvation?

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
Re: Your earlier post about Cornelius - so you grant that he was not saved?

Do you grant there was a work of the Spirit in Cornelius before Peter?

DJC49 wrote:
Quite frankly, we don't know WHAT Cornelius was taught or to what extent was his knowledge.

Michael Hranek wrote:
I know that but sometimes I feel the question might be do those who think themselves elect know that?

Michael Hranek wrote:
ml
Sometimes I believe those holding to one form of calvinism or antoher don't begin to know their Bibles nearly as well as they imagine they do.
Have you forgotten???
Psalm 25:8
Good and upright is the Lord;
therefore he instructs sinners in the way.
Oops! Perhaps you didn't notice that this verse says sinners NOT elect. Maybe you might want to think about this, God instructs not just the elect (I believe He does) but sinners, even those wretched disobedient souls who truly deserve nothing but His wrath.

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
Consequently persons may do many religious and moral things even towards the one true and living God without being converted. So in the case of Cornelius the character traits mentioned of him need not refer to a saved person! These are not necessarily because of the Spirit's work in Cornelius' life.

Mike wrote:
Yet, unless I missed it somewhere, to baptize in the name of the Trinity, as most churches do, is more traditional than biblical.

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
ML
We have not debated this and so I do not know your stance on TD. I could not therefore lump you with the others. So understand that you have included yourself with the others - not me!
I don't need to define it. It has already been done. You can read DJC49's post 2/26/09 2:00 PM under the current thread. Then read mine of same date 4:45 PM and you will get the picture.

You said, “Most calvinists think like Joe T that it means that man is incapable of doing anything morally good. I understand what you mean by "self-referential" but the natural man can also perform amazing acts of true self denial/self sacrifice out genuine love!”

Where in the Bible does it teach that natural man is capable of doing morally good things pleasing to God?

Does doing morally good things profit a man before God? Does God see and approve of him for doing these things?

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
So far we have observed that most of the self professed calvinists on SA:
# Do not understand total depravity or the spiritual nature of man's inability

John UK wrote:
I take this as symbolic of when God begins a work in a poor sinner's heart, leading him to think seriously about his eternal destination. Grace, in other words. But his journey only comes to fruition, with remission of sins, and the gift of eternal life, after he meets 'Evangelist' along the way, who instructs him further concerning Jesus and The Cross. It is then that he comes to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and is saved.

DJC49 wrote:
I'll beg you AGAIN to listen to it if you haven't!

DJC49 wrote:
Concerning Cornelius and what he KNEW about The Messiah,

Cornelius and his household knew some things concerning Christ before Peter came to them. I don’t believe they were saved at this point but the work of the Spirit had begun in them by the grace of God.

Act 10:34-43 -

John UK wrote:
ml
No I was not suggesting that you are charismatic, merely showing how some think about the Spirit incorrectly. As soon as a person is born again, he has the Third Person of the Trinity indwelling him, and so he cannot come again from outside of him.

John UK wrote:
One thing which most people don't think about, is the simple fact that the Holy Ghost is not to be compared with a fluid. This is what the charismatics like to do. They say things like, "Oh I'm only half full."
No, the Spirit is a real Person. An invisible Spirit, spiritual. So that when the Spirit indwells us, he comes completely, not half one day and another bit tomorrow etc.