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| Page 1 | Page 2 · Found: 59 user comments posted recently. |
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 7/9/2020 10:41 AM |
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John UK wrote:
DKH, there is nothing in your statement above which shows that you are not a member of a cult. All of the cults focus on obedience, which is called "works-salvation". I believe 100% that Jesus is divine. Believing obedience to Christ is only a cult thing or that it is "works salvation" is completely not true. Read the Gospels. Jesus spoke over and over again about obedience to Christ. In fact, He gave a great commission to His disciples to go at teach others to obey Christ.The early Church believed they were justified by belief and faith in Christ but that its not true belief if there's no obedience. Thats fake belief. James Thomas wrote:
The "ekklesia" theology has never descended into RC theology. Use whatever terms you want. The fact is, the majority of people who called themselves Christians in the 3rd century had a different theology than the majority of the people who called themselves Christians in the 5th century. But Id agree that there has always been a faithful church.Although, the Early Church believed something totally different than Modern Protestants. But maybe you dont care. Its just strange that your theology was mostly nonexistent till the 5th century. |
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| 7/5/2020 7:32 PM |
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John UK wrote:
Christianity is a rescue mission for sinners. John, we might not disagree as much as you may think. I agree with your statement here but the question is why did God send Jesus to rescue sinners? If you look at the story of the Bible its clear to me. God chose to create man in a special way so God could have a relationship with Him. This ended with the fall. But God created a plan of redemption. Throughout the old testament you see that plan foretold. Then with Jesus' life, death and resurrection it was realized. God made a way of salvation for us people, not because we deserve it or worked for it, but because of Gods love and Grace. Its really an amazing story. God made salvation possible because He wanted to redeem that relationship He had with us, which was His original purpose. I hope that makes sense. As for the reformation. I think its very narrow minded to assume Reformed and Catholicism are the only ways to view the Bible. The early Church had a completely different view of Christianity (a good subject to research). The Reformation had many positive aspects including the work with the Bible. But it was not all good. I have direct ancestors who were murdered by both Catholics and Reformers. |
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| 7/5/2020 10:54 AM |
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Thank you Lurker for the very thoughtful and respectful reply. I totally agree with your comment on reverence of scripture. I think we also need to take the bible in context. So often people mostly ignore passages that dont flow with their theology.On your note about Romans 13:11, I think your exactly right to point out the future tense of Salvation in that verse. This is also not the only place where Salvation in mentioned as future tense in NT. But, taking that verse in context with rest of Romans, it appears (based on Romans 1) that the Roman church had at least a measure of Faith. I dont understand it all but there must be an at least an aspect of salvation that happens in the future. Im wont expound because im not studied on that topic. As for Gods purpose. This is a very big subject and I cant explain it in whole here. But I think reading the Gospels it becomes clear that Jesus mission here on earth was not centered on getting people saved so they can go to heaven. He came to setup the Kingdom of God which is mentioned very frequently. Jesus was making disciples and telling his disciples to make disciples. Thats why Jesus said Obedience is so important. Christianity is about serving the King. Heaven is just a continuation for Christians after death. |
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| 7/4/2020 5:31 PM |
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Lurker wrote:
Paul received his sight, received the Holy Spirit, was justified. He immediately went about preaching Christ yet, you say, he didn't have a relationship with Jesus. I didnt say that. You fail to understand me.
Salvation is not a means for our own good. Its a means to glorify God and God is glorified by the redemption of sinners. God wants a relationship with people. Not because He needs it but because He wants it. Thats why He created humans in the first place. Salvation was Gods way to "save people from their sins" so they could again have a relationship with God and God could show His power and love through them to rest of the World who rejected Him. Paul had this relationship.ladybug wrote:
What do you think James means by 'works' that would justify YOU, a guilty sinner? Maybe James was joking. Or maybe if we twist it enough it will fit our theology.Your view of Eph 2 and John 6 is not what the Christians who sat under the Apostles teaching believed. Why did it take 1500 years for Christians to figure it out? The Apostles must have done a terrible job teaching. Your view that sinners dont have to submit and accept Jesus is very modern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJceuCdgKI0 |
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| 7/4/2020 12:16 PM |
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James Thomas,
I agree with Paul that a man is justified by faith and not the deeds of the law. But also agree with James who said "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." We as Christians have to take the whole bible in context. Paul was talking to Christians who believed there works saved them and he said it was faith in Christ, not works. James was talking to another Church were they thought faith didn't include works. He said "Faith without works is dead". Dr. Tim,
Paul said "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Peter said "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Did Paul and Peter preach a different Gospel? NO. Salvation is multifaceted. Its not one-dimensional. We need to reconcile what Paul, Peter, James and most of all, Jesus said in the entire NT to get a complete view of the Gospel. Yes, we need to have faith in Christ to accept his salvation. But what is faith in Christ? What is believing in Christ?
Hebrews 11 is clear. The ones that had faith DID stuff. They obeyed! If you don't obey Christ you don't have true Faith. |
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| 7/4/2020 12:43 AM |
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Dr. Tim wrote:
So DKH, have you forsaken all that you had? I endeavor to give God all my possessions and let Him have full control over them. This includes my computer and phone even though they are my business tools. For instance, when God called me to go serve in the Middle East for an extended amount of time I gave up my computer and phone along with some other things for that period of time. Some people have an attitude that everything Christ said was a joke and he really didn’t mean it because they say it’s impossible to do. I believe that if Christ told us to do something, He will give us the power and ability to do it. In other words. Jesus actually meant everything he said (I know that sounds crazy). MS wrote:
What is your denominational affiliation? I do not wish to lift up or defend my church or denomination. And I think if I disclosed my denomination it would just give room for attack against it. I rather wish to lift up Jesus. And encourage everyone to Obey what he commanded his disciples because that’s what Jesus told me to do in His commission. |
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| 7/3/2020 11:30 PM |
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Dr. Tim wrote:
Unless you understand the distinction between works and faith, you’ll never be saved either. So your saying unless I agree with your theology I'm not saved? I thought I didn't have to do anything to be saved?Please show me how you get this doctrine from reading Jesus teachings?
"He that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:33." You only get this theology by taking a few statements by Paul, throwing out almost all the rest of NT including the words of Jesus, and then throwing those Pauline statements in a blender with a few unbiblical ideas from the reformers (faith alone). Sorry to be harsh but the gospel I've defended is not the strange one. Yours is. Your Gospel was not taught by Jesus (read the Gospels). Your Gospel was not preached by the apostles (read Acts). And your Gospels is not what the early church lived (read their writings). The Gospel got corrupted when the Church married the state in the 4th century and gave birth to Catholic church. The Catholics made salvation self centered (its all about our salvation). The Reformers simply evolved on this same philosophy but made the steps to get salvation simpler. We need to get back to Christ centered Christianity! |
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| 7/2/2020 9:44 PM |
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Dr. Tim wrote:
DKH, if you are unable to distinguish between passages dealing with salvation and those dealing with discipleship, I question whether you are saved at all. God gets very little use out of people who are so hyper focused on their own salvation.Catholicism made a long formula for salvation.
The Reformers simplified this formula to Faith alone (James 2:24). Lets just get rid of the formula altogether. Christianity is not primarily about our own salvation. And Im sad to see so many people care about nothing else. Salvation is just one of the many benefits of following (believing in) Christ. Lets get back to what the Apostles and the early Christians practiced. Back to real Christianity that is focused on giving God glory. Read Acts for to know what I mean. https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10180222445 I have to go now but if you'll have any other questions feel free to shoot me an email.
dkhthewest @ gmail |
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| 7/2/2020 8:57 PM |
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Dr. Tim wrote:
DHK, I asked a simple question that only requires a yes or no answer, not an entire essay. The question is, have you stopped sinning? Depends what you mean.
A binary answer will leave to much room for assumptions. So ill answer some clearer questions.Am I continuing in a life of willful sin (Romans 6:1)? Absolutly not.
Do I plan to sin in the future? Not at all.
Do I have the capacity (ability) to sin in the future. Yes.
Will I sin in the future? Depends if I continue to use the powerful grace that God has given me or give in to the Devil.
Will God forgive sin that I may commit in the future? Yes.
Does that mean I should go out and sin because of grace? God forbid (Romans 6) Its sorta like asking an ex drunkard if he has stopped drinking. Smack in the middle of 1 John 1:8 & 10 is beautiful verse. Notice the "IF" there.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." I'm not suggesting that I'm somehow above sin but rather that God wasnt kidding when he said he was going to save us from our sin and that His grace does have the power to do that, if we fully die to ourselves. Which is a daily battle. Is Matthew 7:21 a discipleship or salvation |
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| 7/2/2020 8:28 PM |
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MS wrote:
I would urge you to read the Gospel of John and the book of Romans over and over Usually its a bad idea to read a specific part of the bible to affirm your theology but John and Romans are good books. Heres a few notable verses."Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" John 8:31
"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him" John 14:21
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love" John 15:10
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:1-2
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin" Romans 6:6
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof" Romans 6:12
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid." Romans 6:15 |
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| 7/2/2020 6:14 PM |
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ladybug wrote:
When you insist one must 'repent of sin' in order to be saved....that is a 'work'. That's the 'dead works' that must be repented of I dont understand what I said wrong with regard to repenting. Everything I've said on the subject has been direct biblical quotes or nearly one (other than maybe the time I said I would repent if I sinned).Anyways, if I directly quoted Peter to a sinner, would it be OK with you? "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" ladybug wrote:
The works/obedience of the believer is done under the power of the Spirit according to His truth. Completely agree.ladybug wrote:
...as for 'keep my commandments', I asked you which commandments are you required to keep? Jesus told His disciples to obey whatever He commanded them. Matthew 5-7 is three chapters of Jesus doing exactly that. And at the end he said "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven." "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house on a rock" |
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| 7/2/2020 5:49 PM |
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ladybug wrote:
He only sees what His Son has done, and not your pitiful attempts at meritorial brownie points. To be clear, I'm not trying to earn my salvation. Nor am I trying to work my way to Heaven.I just love Jesus and He told me "if you love Me keep My commandments". Should I obey Jesus or not? Can't seem to get a straight answer. Also, He told his followers to tell others to obey whatsoever He commanded them. Should I tell others that or not? I've just been trying to do what Jesus wants me to do, not because I'm trying to work my way to heaven, but rather because Jesus has bought me with His blood and redeemed me and forgave my sins and I dont deserve it one bit. And because of that I am so SO grateful. I want to do whatever pleases Him most. And, you wont believe this, but He even said He would give His servants the power to do what He wants us to do!!! Isn't that amazing! |
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