Dr. Phil wrote:
This is a red herring to avoid the most important point. The Bible alone is the Word of God. The Bible does not teach polygamy.

Just as you can say that the Bible doesn't teach polygamy, I can say that it does--with equal authority.

However, I can also point to Scripture: Gen. 4:19, Exod. 21:10, Deut. 25:5-10, 2 Sam. 12:8, Jer. 3, Ezek. 23, et. al. There's also the proof in that God did not EVER condemn those who were polygamists for polygamy.

So, by using Scripture, I can claim GREATER authority for my statement: POLYGAMY IS BLESSED AND SANCTIFIED BY GOD!

Dr. Phil wrote:
If anything, the examples of polygamy in the OT provide illustrations of the trouble that arises from polygamous marriages. For example...

Dr. Phil wrote:
There isn't a Christian woman alive who truly loves her husband that would care to have him have conjugal relations with another woman...

Dr. Phil wrote:
Logical flaws?? Try again John,
1) It is not I who fails to see the plenary teaching in the word "two" from 1 Cor. 6:16. It is not I who sees that Adam had many wives in the beginning.

I DON'T see that Adam had many wives, nor does it matter. However, he COULD have had many wives.

Dr. Phil wrote:
2) ...You are supposed to have more revealation than the Jews of the OT.

Dr. Phil wrote:
3) ...The norm does not justify sin. "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil."

Dr. Phil wrote:
In the least plausible hypothesis argument all of the scriptures that define the acceptable marriage of only two individuals is ignored.

(1) There are NO Scriptures that define marriage as just two individuals. This has yet to be proven against Scriptural evidence to the contrary. You are adding your bias to these passages--eisegesis, not exegesis.

(2) The Ancient Jews and the Old Testament do not distinguish between monogamy and polygamy as forms of marriage. Both were "marriage". Therefore, without specific statements to the contrary, the baseline is that polygamy and monogamy were the "norm". Deviations from the norm must be proven.

(3) Since the norm was polygamy/monogamy, the LEAST PLAUSIBLE HYPOTHESIS is that passages such as Genesis 2:24 reflect monogamy, when other Scripture, history, and grammar all contradict your hypothesis.

Dr. Phil wrote:
Thus, the only accepted explanation by the polygamists is the one desired...

Dr. Phil wrote:
You have still failed to show how Gen. 2:24 has been repealed...

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Gen. 2:24)

At best, this only describes a man joining his first wife, and states nothing positive or negative about having more than one wife.

At worst (for your point-of-view) it means that a man is one flesh with his wife--no matter whether she is his first or 101st wife. This is the view Paul the apostle took in 1 Cor. 6:16. Therefore, you are disagreeing with Paul and GOD, not with us.

Derek wrote:
Bible Believer
Has anyone bothered to see how horrible these Patriarchs families turned out? The jealousy, rape, murder, conspiracy. Look who God chose as the fathers of Israel. Abraham - one wife, Issac - one wife, Jacob - one wife. See the picture?
The reason God didn't say anything is because he hadn't given them the revelation we have today. God said he "winked" on their sin (this is not necessarily speaking of polygamy) because they didn't have complete revelation.
One other thing. The marriage is a picture of Christ and his Bride - the Church. And Jesus has only one Bride.
Actually - I can't believe such a useless question was put on this site.

You are drawing a false association between polygamy and the sins some of these people committed. Therefore, you shouldn't object if I note that many MONOGAMISTS were sinners, therefore monogamy is sinful, correct?

Jesus has one Bride, but His Father had two.

Observation Post wrote:
Watch the featured videos on this news story.
It's hard to even justify trying to reason from scripture with these people. Of course they will all say "We are not like them, we are different."

We know this because there are SOME monogamists that do it, so you must do it also.

Dr. Phil wrote:
OTP,
Your arguments are fallacious. They beg the question of what are the real issues aside from these Red Herrings that you employ. The question is "Is Polygamy lawful?" Has the law of Gen. 2:24 been repealed? Did God in the beginning give Adam more than one wife? The sinful behavior of the Fathers does not constitute a repeal of the law, nor does the two wives of Tekoa provide grounds for imitation. Furthermore, it does not repeal 1 Tim. 3:2
On the other hand, the polygamist is an unchaste infidel, a pedophile, an adulterer using religion to deceive. Your secret underwear has holes.

The "law" of Genesis 2:24 is unrelated to polygamy, so that's a red herring.

Whether God gave Adam more than one wife is also a red herring, because it isn't a statement of God's ideal for marriage.

Walt wrote:
Adelphos,
You are a serious deceiver on this site. Your promotion of polygamy leads to terrible sex slavery for these women.

Why do you focus on the women as sex slaves? Why not view the man as the "sex object" of two women?

The figures I presented are accurate census figures. There are simply more women than men.

I'm sure you feel pretty smart finding what you feel are "logical fallacies" in everything, but logical fallacies are generally of limited use except in formal debate. In real life, logical fallacies are wrong more often than right. Statistics are more often right.

You call the Patriarchs sinful, but you don't specify why.

You also go into this bass-ackwards. Everything is "lawful" that isn't prohibited, not the other way around. God doesn't have to commend something in order for it to be good. Only the things He condemns are wrong.

You say, "Is it OK to feign madness because David did it (1 Sam 21:12-13)?" I say, YES, if it saves your life.

Observation Post wrote:
If everyone believed polygamy was biblical where would the women come from so every man could have three wives? Think!

Everyone can BELIEVE that polygamy is a good and righteous form of marriage WITHOUT ENTERING INTO POLYGAMY.

Observation Post wrote:
...I find no where in scripture where polygamy is condemned. What I do see is what God had ordained in Gen 2 and Matt 19. I choose to believe that is what God had ordained and it is reflected in the age old history of mankind being born into this world equally male and female and you choose to take it as a mere suggestion.

Genesis 2:24 isn't a "mere" suggestion. It's an observation, as in the book of Proverbs. It's a parenthetical statement by Moses (not Adam) and begins with "Therefore". This is a specific reference to what went before (in verses 18-23).

Moses is answering an obvious, but unasked, question from Adam's statement (verse 23). The question is why does a man leave his parents for a woman. The answer is that he feels close to her because of sexual intercourse.

Observation Post wrote:
Paul also teaches in the next verse (1 Cor 6:18) that such an act is fornication and in 1 Cor 6:9-10 teaches that all who do such shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Good point and good night.

The Old Testament interprets the New. Moses wrote down the OT. He was a polygamist, and he wrote Laws requiring polygamy in some circumstances.

Moses also wrote about polygamists WITHOUT CONDEMNING THEIR POLYGAMY. Therefore, it seems odd that the man that WROTE "the two shall become one" originally would both be a polygamist and require it of others if it were wrong.

Not to mention, God never condemned Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Gideon, Joash, etc. for polygamy.

Observation Post wrote:
Prove it. Two can play that game.

The truth is that Genesis 2:24 (and Matthew 19:5-6) make simple statements without being commands of any type.

Observation Post wrote:
If none of you will believe the Father and Son why would you believe us?
I take my leave.
Edit: John_for_Christ,
Just saw your post however I am done with this discussion at least for now. Above in this post is what God has ordained and I stand on His word. You can stand or fall on whatever you want.
End of discussion.

The Scriptures you provided don't tell God's ideal for marriage. They just say what happens, matter-of-factly. They don't set any kind of limit.

Genesis 2:24 simply tells us what happens when a man gets married. Paul tells us in the NT that a man can be "one flesh" with any number of women. The same thing applies to Matthew 19:5-6, since it is quoting Genesis 2:24.

Observation Post wrote:
YES HE IS is in His immortal spirit reality, not our mortal carnal reality. God is spirit. And that is the point I made in my previous post. You cannot take something which God intended to be interpreted and understood spiritually and use it to justify mortal carnality. It doesn't work and all attempts perverts His testimony.

God does not change. God is not portrayed IN HUMAN TERMS as wicked in any way. God is portrayed as a polygamist IN HUMAN TERMS and HUMAN SYMBOLISM. Therefore, polygamy is good and right, and did not suddenly change between the Testaments.

In fact, there is zero evidence that polygamy was ever considered sinful in Scripture.

You are telling us from your faulty human reasoning why you think it is wrong. Show us from SCRIPTURE where men are told NOT to marry more than one wife.

[QUOTE]Sorry but I trust you understand the error.Well, WSG is my wife, and I, for one, don't understand the error. You sound as if you think your mistake was obvious.