Unprofitable Servant wrote:
It is not a passage about God's dealings with the whole of humanity

Having said that he could wish himself accursed from Christ for his brethren, his kinsmen according to the flesh (who were naturally Israelites), he moves on immediately to address which Israel he is concerned about - whether the spiritual or the natural - grace or race.

Look at verse 6 again - "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" is the clue to the train of thought right the way from chapter 9 to 11. It is the Israel which is according to the election of grace that he is speaking of - in the early part those who are of the natural Israel and then he moves onto the gentiles and then in chapter 11 back to the one true Israel composed on Jews and Gentiles.

Christopher000 wrote:
Anyway, good to hear from you, and I agree with the others who welcomed you.

We've not corresponded since November last year, so I have no idea what you suppose you'd done to upset me, and besides you should know by now that I have a thick skin as concerns feelings, and if I'd objected to anything you'd done, I would have told you. Now, I'm learning to grow a thick skin towards those that despise or treat lightly God's word too, even though it is THE single most difficult thing for me. The Lord knows this and is helping me.

Lord bless you brother. I love you in the Lord and there's nothing going to change that.

Dr. Tim wrote:
I believe that absolutely anyone can be saved if he or she repents and trusts Jesus Christ as the one who died for their sins, was buried, and rose again for their justification, and I believe that all who DO repent and trust Him are the elect.

James Thomas wrote:
Bro Observer,
It seems as if you have been bottled up to long after reading some of your heart felt posts.

_____

Dr Tim

There is no attempt to dampen enthusiasm for seeking lost souls on my part. Quite the reverse. I wish that all Christians and all churches would multiply their efforts to reach the lost.

My beef is with the faulty understanding of the gospel and the consequent false approach to leading souls to Christ. Paying lip service to the fact that it is the Lord alone who saves and at the same time helping to miscarry the process of conversion by making false converts is not glorifying the Lord.

______

Brother UPS

Bless you dear brother and a to your post of 12/11/17 12:52 AM

______

Cranky but gracious Chris

Good morning brother.

__________

John UK

MS wrote:
Much of contemporay Christianity is sick because it lacks a doctrinal foundation.
Have we not witnessed this on these threads over the past few years?..the downgrade has been been shocking to say the least...
What we see daily pushed on here by "evangelists" (so called) is a strange mixture of Bible, humanism, decisional regeneration, and the idolatrous methods of arminianism.

But then, our Lord did say that the final days would be like the days of Noah, when admixture with worldlings, their errors and corruptions reduced the Sethite line to but one who pleased the Lord and then the judgement descended.

Luke 18.8 ...Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

From these self-evident facts, it is inferred by some sincere inquirers after truth, that the love of God is changeable, and not invariably fixed on its objects ; which inference has perplexed many of the people of God, and proved a stumblingblock in their way. From this source various errors have proceeded, by which the glorious gospel of the grace of God has been beclouded, the faith of many Christians staggered, and their joy in Jesus and hope of glory greatly diminished.

The love of God, according to the Scriptures, ought to be considered under the distinctions, of natural and as sovereign. The righteous Lord loveth righteousness, and holiness is his perpetual delight. This love arises from the perfection and purity of his nature, and has for its object his own holy image, as stamped upon his rational creatures. In other words, in holy dispositions and corresponding acts, the Lord takes pleasure and delight. He is of purer eyes than to behold iniquity with approbation, or look on holiness with disgust. His hatred of sin, and love of purity, are not acts of sovereignty. Sin is not hateful because God willed it should be so, but is odious in its own nature to every pure being ; and is therefore infinitely hateful to an infinitely holy God....

Notwithstanding the above and such like solemn declarations made by the God of truth, such objections have been raised against the
unchangeableness of Jehovah's love, as greatly to perplex and stumble some who are evidently the objects of it.

God could not produce creatures morally defective, or disagreeable to himself; they were what he willed them to be, i. e. good, yea, very good and as such were loved and delighted in, by their Maker. Every creature being Jehovah's production, therefore no creature was, in its original state, the object of his disapprobation. Yet many of them are now the declared objects of his hatred and indignation...

ladybug wrote:
..How sad; many will answer for their foolish methods of 'getting sinners saved'.

Salvation is indeed of the Lord, and woe betide the so called evangelists who adopt anything but a scriptural method of proclaiming the gospel or guiding any soul to Christ. They take upon themselves solemn responsibilities for which they are not fitted and it will not go well with them on the day of reckoning.

___________________

BTW, one other important thing to learn about Victorian churches, certainly those that believed in the Doctrines of Grace, is their utter reliance on prayer. The prayer meetings were, as Spurgeon put it, the engine of the church. Prayer and fasting was therefore a regular occurrence.

ladybug wrote:
...Another problem with SOME of, not ALL of, today's 'evangelists' is they do not even know what the Gospel is, or who God is. .....I recall Christ stated 'repent and believe', I do NOT recall Christ telling sinners He loved them and would save them IF they did___________ {fill in the blank}.

Each soul should be directed to the Lord. A good evangelist will teach about genuine repentance and faith but not conclude that anyone who appears to have repented and believed is a genuine believer. Let the Lord determine if they are genuine and when to answer their prayers for the new birth. We should wait to see lasting fruit before we believe that there is any real change (parable of the sower should teach us this!).

If we give any premature assurance to someone who is not genuinely converted yet, what do you suppose will happen to them? They will become another deluded worldly professor and/or eventually fall away, maybe forever.

fatherly love wrote:
..
Look forward to any helpful comm

When I have a little more time I will cite a very old book and show you what deep thinkers our forebears were on issues like this.

It should hopefully clear up all your questions.

Shane wrote:
My son was born this morning. Healthy and strong. Momma is good. She's a warrior.
I praise the Lord for his blessings.
I thank the brothers and sisters for their prayers.
God bless.

Thanks for letting us all know.

It was the firm belief of Victorian Christians that we are all saved to serve. Nowadays most "believers" think that we are saved to be served and that God is at our beck and call to make our life pleasant and to alleviate all the problems of life. Why, many even think that he saved us to prosper us in this world.

This is the reason that many gave their very lives as missionaries to make the gospel known to far away lands abandoning the security and safety of their own beloved home country.

How sad to observe the state to Christendom today, characterised as it is by naval gazing self absorption and everyone busy padding their little nests with the comforts of this passing world. Being satisfied with trinkets and missing the high purpose of our calling. May the Lord have mercy upon us!

Adriel wrote:
.
An example of this is ....
W. E. Channing (1789-1842)

1. The gospel commission was given to churches, not individual evangelists or para church organizations (not even Billy Graham's!). Spreading the gospel is therefore the sole responsibility of local churches.

2. Churches should therefore be organized like gospel pumping businesses and all the members put to work in furthering the gospel. Every member should be trained and set to some work for the Lord.

3. Specific evangelistic preaching should be conducted weekly in church and those who are strangers to the things of God brought under the sound of the gospel.

4. The Lord's army needs discipline and therefore church discipline should be taken seriously. Worldliness, which abounds in our age, was seen as a great evil (which it is) and worthy of discipline. I wonder how many today would have been thrown out of churches for their worldly lifestyles?

5. Tracting was seen as one of the important ways of getting the message to the people. Personal witness too was taken seriously. A saved person who refused to speak about their Lord to others was suspected of being unconverted.

Since then, Mr. Hurndall has more thoroughly organized his forces, and correspondingly extended his operations. Apart from his tract-visitors, who now number nearly one hundred, and who call upon some thousands of families every week, he has nine missionaries. ....

Taken in its social aspect, the saddest characteristics of the East End become more intensified in proportion as the population increases. Thither, in a never-ceasing stream, gravitate all kinds of people who have lost their footing in the world ; some being examples of misfortune, while others are victims of their own folly or sin. At the best of times, the great area shows an unnatural amount of poverty and suffering ; but in times of exceptional distress it is a world of despair....

Such are the kind of people who are reached and benefited by the
church... ; and the work is done by those who hold very uncompromising notions respecting the inspiration of the Bible and the doctrines of grace."

So much for those who constantly accuse DOG folk of not caring for lost souls! Ignorance is no excuse for such lies.

To illustrate the "working church" concept, here is an extract from the Sword & Trowel of 1889 giving detail of an Evans Hurndall who was a newly appointed pastor in East London, following ministerial training after giving up a successful business career.

"Great success at once attended Mr. Hurndall's ministry, and his efforts to organize a working church in his densely-populated district. The renovation of the old chapel, at a cost of £2,000, was undertaken, and since that date an additional £4,000 has been expended in necessary enlargement, and in providing new rooms. The ordinary congregations were exceedingly crowded, while the membership of the church became as numerous as the seats in the chapel."

BTW - You are the worst ever at corresponding.

---

Hey sister SF!

NeedHim wrote:
Therefore, don't go out without your tracts.

I can personally testify to the usefulness of tracts. A tract was one of many links in my own conversion.

Nettles writes of Spurgeon soon after his conversion “Spurgeon entered enthusiastically into every opportunity for service to Christ that he could. He distributed tracts joyfully and consistently while still at Newmarket. He had seventy people that he regularly visited, taking his Saturdays for this visitation as well as tract distribution. He explained to his mother, “I do not give a tract, and go away; but I sit down, and endeavour to draw their attention to spiritual realities".

Later when his magazine the Sword and Trowel was established he wrote tracts and published them for sale at a cheap rate so that they could be distributed in the neediest parts of the city and elsewhere in the country. He even had teams of tract men!

The Victorians were certainly pre-eminent tract people. There were probably more tracts produced in that period then any other.

Lurker wrote:
If I don't talk to you before, have a joyous Christmas holiday season with family. Its about the only time we are able to get all our family together at one time.

Be assured of my love and prayers for you and yours.

It is interesting that in the verse I cited viz. John 17.6 the Lord himself claimed that it was the manifestation of the Father's name (bear in mind the OT significance in declaring the names of God), which he had revealed and which was at stake in the word that was "kept" by his disciples. Knowing how the Lord is jealous over his name, is it conceivable that he should be slack in preserving his word? I doubt it very much.

Lord bless.

...

My dear brother Lurker

I hope you got my last email. Sincere apologies brother for not keeping in touch. I will try and do better.

Trust that all is well with your soul and with your loved ones.

Lord bless.

.....

Sister MS

You always make me smile the way you say things!

Yup, some things don't change.

BTW - I just read a few of your latest responses and must say I am heartened to see your growth in the knowledge of God's word.

Lord bless.

---------

to complete the last citation from Spurgeon, he went on to say,